Tank disrespect.

[Nabian]

So now you decide what the Tank/Healer feel they can handle? If you wish to set the pace then I suggest you sign on as the healer. Yes it is the healer that sets the pace. Lesson I had to relearn again just this morning. Never pull faster than your Angel can cast. The Team is only as strong as the weakest link.

Healer/Tank teams can beat any instance (Slow and Steady). DD's are not needed they just make runs a bit faster is all.

Generally speaking (I know there are always exceptions), the Tank sets the pace of the dungeon. It's the healers and the DPS that determine if he is successful. A good tank will assess his "team" and pull based upon the skill level of the group (notice how I never mentioned gear, although it often plays a large roll). With random PUGS most often the tank can only go based upon the gear of the players he is grouped with, but If you know the people personally then you can make a more accurate assessment based on skill.

I agree that you are only as strong as your weakest link. If the healer can't keep up with heals, be it lack of skill or overload by tank/dps over pulling then the group will fail. But I disagree with regards to the heals setting the pace or that the DPS are "not needed". I would LOVE to see you try to kill any coil dungeon with just tanks and healers.

Slow and Steady will win out in most cases but there are certain instances where its not enough. Tanks will take damage and can only be healed by healers for so long before they run out of MP.

AND FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THINGS HOLY...SE GET RID OF THE DAMN 1000 CHAR LIMIT.

[Synestra]

Yes it is the healer that sets the pace.

This is the reason why i always ask if group wants medium or big pulls when doing DF roulettes, and i usually wait response from healer and not from DPS as its pretty much up to them how much i can pull.

[DuelingPokemon]

This is the reason why i always ask if group wants medium or big pulls when doing DF roulettes, and i usually wait response from healer and not from DPS as its pretty much up to them how much i can pull.

Pretty much this. If its a random group, Im willing to go at a pace and figure out what my healer can/cannot handle. I might be the one who's holding the enemies attention but they're the ones who are keeping us all alive.

Now a Free Company run is an entirely different story in regards to pulls. -chuckles-

[XiXiQ]

If for some reason I choose to go as DD, and I'm pulling mobs it's because I feel your moving at a pace that is too slow for the group to handle.

This pretty much sums up why a lot of people don't want to tank low level via DF at all. It's not the job of a DD/heal to decide what to pull, when to pull it, or what pace things will go.

I'll bet any money you like you don't behave that way in high end content. Just run straight up to twin before any pulls/aggro and start blasting away, do you? The lower level content, and players, require respect as well.

[Ashkendor]

Your type of player are the ones that get vote kicked as well. If for some reason I choose to go as DD, and I'm pulling mobs it's because I feel your moving at a pace that is too slow for the group to handle.

If there are more than 2 mobs you can bet your a$$ i'll be using AoE moves right out the gate. If you purposefully kill others by not performing your role then you deserve a one way ticket out of the dungeon.

I ran into a DRG that played like this in Tam-Tara while doing low level roulette on SCH. The tank was new, so he wasn't moving fast; it was steady (he was marking mobs and such) but not fast enough for the DRG, who started pulling everything. I asked him twice to let the tank do his job (how else is he gonna learn?) and then put Eos away and stopped DPS'ing in favor of focus healing the tank. Sure enough, the DRG didn't even notice, ran into a room with four mobs, and died. He res'ed without a word and kept doing it. We got to the altar with two groups of mobs at it and he decided to pull that room. The tank managed to get the mobs off of him, but he was nearly dead for the entire encounter. I asked him again to quit pulling; he responded "Other people need healing too, you know." I'd been healing the THM when needed throughout the dungeon because he wasn't being an asshat. I told the DRG if he'd stop pulling on purpose I'd be happy to heal him. He ragequit as soon as the encounter ended. No big loss.

As soon as he left, I apologized for the drama and resummoned Eos. We had another DPS within a minute or two. If people aren't going to play nice, I'm certainly not going to enable their behavior.

I admittedly have a soft spot for new tanks. I like them to have every opportunity to end up as good ones.

This is the reason why i always ask if group wants medium or big pulls when doing DF roulettes, and i usually wait response from healer and not from DPS as its pretty much up to them how much i can pull.

Yup. I always ask. I don't assume everyone wants a speed run even if they're geared for it.

Pretty much this. If its a random group, Im willing to go at a pace and figure out what my healer can/cannot handle. I might be the one who's holding the enemies attention but they're the ones who are keeping us all alive.

Now a Free Company run is an entirely different story in regards to pulls. -chuckles-

Bahaha. My FC parties end up with ridiculously huge pulls for them to nuke. It's fun as hell. xD

[Ceodore]

As soon as he left, I apologized for the drama and resummoned Eos. We had another DPS within a minute or two. If people aren't going to play nice, I'm certainly not going to enable their behavior.

I would like to point out at this point to any DPS that might see this. DPS are a dime a dozen. There is no composition requirements for any of the regular dungeons. YOU DO NOT run the raid. YOU DO NOT call the shots. YOU DO NOT make the rules. YOU ARE NOT special. In fact, YOU ARE as replaceable as a 50 cent light bulb. "We had another DPS within a minute of two" About the time it takes to replace a light bulb. DPS learn to not focus on one target, watch your enmity meters, the tab button is there not just so you can switch from one dead mobs to a live one, your DOTs do more damage when they are on more than one mob at a time, your AOE is generally worth more when there are 3+ mobs, and your healer has enough on their plate healing the tank, they don't need your dumb ass taking aggro and taking damage, so watch yourself before you wreck yourself. Your armor is paper thin and your HP is next to worthless compared to those of us tanks that actually are built for taking damage, so either learn your place or my healer (Who is not the person I quoted above, but they are a lot alike) WILL let your idiotic ass die. You aren't cool, and you aren't getting a commendation when you act stupid.

[HulveinBlitz]

Stuff

A few bad experiences, aren't enough to generalize all DPS as worthless.

Which is the stench your post is giving off.

[Naryoril]

In fact, YOU ARE as replaceable as a 50 cent light bulb.

Try to find a normal, cheap light bulb in Europe. If you find one, please tell me where.

[Benolan]

stuff

That post is about as useful as me going on about tanks who can't keep aggro against WHM regen (mid fight, not the start) or don't use flash. By all means, do your runs without the healers or DPS who all apparently pale to your awesomeness.

[Ashkendor]

I would like to point out at this point to any DPS that might see this. DPS are a dime a dozen. There is no composition requirements for any of the regular dungeons. YOU DO NOT run the raid. YOU DO NOT call the shots. YOU DO NOT make the rules. YOU ARE NOT special. In fact, YOU ARE as replaceable as a 50 cent light bulb. "We had another DPS within a minute of two" About the time it takes to replace a light bulb. DPS learn to not focus on one target, watch your enmity meters, the tab button is there not just so you can switch from one dead mobs to a live one, your DOTs do more damage when they are on more than one mob at a time, your AOE is generally worth more when there are 3+ mobs, and your healer has enough on their plate healing the tank, they don't need your dumb ass taking aggro and taking damage, so watch yourself before you wreck yourself. Your armor is paper thin and your HP is next to worthless compared to those of us tanks that actually are built for taking damage, so either learn your place or my healer (Who is not the person I quoted above, but they are a lot alike) WILL let your idiotic ass die. You aren't cool, and you aren't getting a commendation when you act stupid.

Eh... I wouldn't go that far at all. I try not to even joke with my DPS friends that DPS are faceless and replaceable, because I don't want them to feel that way. There are people behind every one of those DPS characters, and I can't bring myself to trivialize them that way. Good DPS are extremely valuable to me. There's all kinds of ways you can be good DPS: the DRG/MNK that stuns annoying skills, the SMN that resses your healer, the BLM that knows when to toss an Apocastasis on the tank, heck even just knowing when to back off and let the tank establish control or taking the initiative to pull an add off the healer so they can stop kiting and make with the healy-goodness. Yes, bad DPS are annoying and disruptive, but so are bad tanks and bad healers. It has nothing to do with the role that they're in and everything to do with just plain having a bad player in your party.

In the early dungeons, anyone basically CAN tank as long as the healer is paying attention. Those dungeons are very forgiving because they're learning tools to define your roles in the party. If the tank had been terrible, I wouldn't have minded the DRG taking the initiative to tank things; the fact is, he wasn't. The tank was doing alright and was obviously trying, so running ahead and pulling even when asked not to do it was just douchey.