This needs to be stopped, and immediately.

[Giantbane]

And no one will do the dungeons but new people.

I really need to time all the CS's in CM and Prae so I have information to throw back at people who think making them unsinkable and not increasing the tome reward is a good idea to deal with this situation.

Somebody already did in the thread. CM isn't too bad at like 7-10minutes (depending of course on how fast you read). Prae comes in around 22min. None of this counts the after boss cutscene, and I'd imagine it's worse on PS3 with load times.

CM isn't so bad. But then again the mid dungeon cutscenes are pretty stupid, you're not missing a whole lot if you skip them.

Prae, on the other hand is absurd. It takes as long to watch the cutscenes as it does to run the dungeon. Demanding people to stand around and do absolutely nothing for half of the dungeon run because you want to watch a movie is a little selfish. I personally did not mind waiting for others when the roulette was first released because it didn't happen very often. But since the influx of new players from PS4, it's not worth it any more so I rarely do the story roulette now. However, I still don't mind waiting if the group wants to, or we have a few new players that all want to see the cutscenes. But if it's only 1 player and the group doesn't want to wait, I have no problem charging on without them while they watch the Prae movie.

If it's really, *REALLY* important to you to have the full prae cinematic experience, put together a duty finder for this specific purpose. Just put in the comments that you want to get the full cinematic experience and welcome others who want to experience Prae as originally intended. You should (given all the upvotes) easily be able to find a group in a semi-reasonable time frame. However, if you can't put together a group, well, there's your answer to how many people are interested in watching the cutscenes.

But seriously, don't blame the players for not wanting to sit around twiddling their thumbs for 20+ min for your sake alone. Blame SE's antiquated, non-interactive design to put excessive cutscenes in the middle of the dungeon. Even if you ramp up the rewards to something absurd like 400-500 myth and force them to watch the cutscenes, you're still creating a situation where playing the game involves standing there, mindlessly staring off into space while you watch the same damn cutscene for the umpteenth million time. That's just NOT GOOD DESIGN. And if you don't have people running it often, the new players will have to wait forever to get in the queues for it (this already happened with Cape Westwind before it was added to the trials roulette).

It's also the ONLY dungeon where it's a serious issue. So just get over it and move on to the end game. In reality it's just a very small portion of what you're going to be doing and you'll have many more epic moments actually FIGHTING (not watching) stuff that happens after the end game.

And again, if you *really* want the full Prae cinematic experience, there is an option for that. It may not be as easy as 1-click DF queue, but it's supposedly important for you to have the proper experience, right?

[Blackweaver]

However, I still don't mind waiting if the group wants to, or we have a few new players that all want to see the cutscenes. But if it's only 1 player and the group doesn't want to wait, I have no problem charging on without them while they watch the Prae movie.

Now if more people took this stance, these kinds of threads wouldn't exist. Let the new player enjoy the cinematics their first time through. But I agree, if they demand the group wait for them to finish watching the cutscene and the group would rather move on, then the group should move on. If the cutscene viewer gets snippy, well there is the vote kick option. But in my experience, most cutscene viewing people aren't like that. They watch the cutscenes and make an effort to try to keep up even if it means missing the boss fight.

[Lucke]

Demanding people to stand around and do absolutely nothing for half of the dungeon run because you want to watch a movie is a little selfish.

I agree that having mid dungeon CSes probably wasn't the smartest idea ever. But it's also selfish to bully someone else who is there for the story to skip their cutscenes because YOU wanna get YOUR tomes faster. Both sides are selfish, not just the one. Not talking about you specifically, but anyone who feels like bullying noobs for enjoying the game.

[Giantbane]

I agree that having mid dungeon CSes probably wasn't the smartest idea ever. But it's also selfish to bully someone else who is there for the story to skip their cutscenes because YOU wanna get YOUR tomes faster. Both sides are selfish, not just the one. Not talking about you specifically, but anyone who feels like bullying noobs for enjoying the game.

waiting for cutscenes - 1 player watching, 7 sitting on their thumbs

vs.

not waiting - 1 player watching cutscenes but doesn't get to fight bosses OR 1 player has to wait till later to watch his cutscenes but gets to participate in fights that get facerolled by the ilvl90+ players and 7 players that get to play the game without standing around


One of those options seems more selfish than the other. Maybe that's just me.

However, I agree with you that it's not right to bully others into not watching the cutscenes. And it's definitely not ok to kick them if they're new and watching the cutscenes.

[Darki]

If a new player watches the cut scenes but continues trying to catch up and participate, then they are not "leeching" off the party as you put it. What you described is someone that sits at the entrance and is basically afk. If someone though is making an effort to try to catch up to the group between cutscenes and still gets vote kicked, then that is the problem. If they just sit at the entrance and do nothing, then they deserve to be kicked. It is a 2 way street. If the group boots the person that is trying to catch up to the group between the cutscenes, then no, I wont play with griefers. It's not throwing a tantrum, it's called not supporting toxic behavior. If the person who got booted is the second healer, well then that "Speed Run" is over. Because they will have lost both healers from their pigheadedness.

I'm a nice person, but I also don't put up with bullying and griefing. And I refuse to play with people that behave like that. If there is someone that just sits at the entrance to watch the cutscenes and doing nothing, then yeah, vote kick em for not even trying. My first time through I watched ALL the cutscenes, and I was still pretty close by to the group, making an effort to keep up, participated when the cutscene ended. I was there for story, and I got my runs done in 1 shot both times.

When it came to the Ultima fight, someone decided to pull during the cutscene. I continued watching the cutscene regardless, and when the scene ended, the second healer died, and I picked up the slack and we finished the fight. In my case, I watched the cutscenes, but made an effort to contribute. Regardless, when it comes to bad behavior, or griefing, yeah I will complain. It's the beauty of a democracy. If something seems wrong or broken, people can protest and try to make a change for the better.

You like throwing the term dictator around a lot. Tell me, who is the real dictator in these 2 groups:

Group 1 - "Do was I say! Skip the cutscene! I will have the group vote kick you if you don't do as I say! Play how I want you to play or else!"

Group 2 - "I'm here to have fun and enjoy the story. I will try to catch up and participate if you are willing to be patient. If you aren't that is fine as well, I just want to experience for myself, the story and have fun."

Since you don't have the attention span to read a full paragraph, i'll keep it short this time:

Is a player watching a CS Tanking? Healing? Damage dealing? Didn't think so. That is a leach.

What you call "toxic behavior" is merely people who don't put up with selfish behavior.

A "nice person" who calls people bullies (A person who uses strength or power to harm or intimidate those who are weaker.) and grievers (a person who harasses or deliberately provokes other players or members in order to spoil their enjoyment) when they don't agree with him/her. That's funny. Especially considering a CS watcher can easily be called a "griever" to in case you haven't noticed.


I call you a dictator because you fit the definition like a glove: "A person who tells people what to do in an autocratic way or who determines behavior in a particular sphere."

And your two examples? the answer is both. Why? because in both quotes, the person talking is not taking the wants of the entire group into consideration. That person is doing what that person wants and screw the rest of the party. It is this reason why the kick system is based on popular vote. Also, nobody can "make" others vote a certain way. I mean...really?

I fight for others. and whether you choose to admit it or not, you only fight for yourself. Empathy will do you some good. Trust me on this.

Now toss me another one. I have my catcher's mit ready

[Kimikryo]

why ... is this still active?

its like watching a Lizardmen cub trying to catch its own tail, just less entertaining

[Darki]

waiting for cutscenes - 1 player watching, 7 sitting on their thumbs

vs.

not waiting - 1 player watching cutscenes but doesn't get to fight bosses OR 1 player has to wait till later to watch his cutscenes but gets to participate in fights that get facerolled by the ilvl90+ players and 7 players that get to play the game without standing around


One of those options seems more selfish than the other. Maybe that's just me.

However, I agree with you that it's not right to bully others into not watching the cutscenes. And it's definitely not ok to kick them if they're new and watching the cutscenes.

This. This right here.

[IndigoHawk]

It is not selfish to play the game as intended and get the full experience. It is so sad that people are such poor gamers they have no idea how to game.
"But 7 people want to grind and don't care at all about the noob and have no idea how to have fun with noobs ... what about them?"

They're getting tomes. To stand around and wait. Yes, that's how it works.
If they run ahead and kill everything, yes, they're being selfish.

Empathy does not mean "Oh, 7 people want to grind; I guess I will ruin my first time experience" or "Oh, the majority are selfish; I guess I should let them push me around."

Empathy means, "I was new once. I remember what that is like. Let's make sure the noob has fun, and hope they help the next noob have fun."

It's a lot more fun to be a gamer than a grinder.

[Lucke]

stuff

You misunderstood. 1 person holding up the team (this is debatable as the dungeons can be done without them) is selfish (this as well is a grey area, the new person is watching the CS the SE themselves put into place. They aren't doing anything wrong per se).

vs.

7 other people wanting to hurry up. Damn the noob watching cutscenes, those 7 want their tomes now! That's pretty selfish, even if it's 7 people. They want their tomes, and damning everyone else is being selfish too. Not being considerate of anyone else, in this case the new player, is being selfish.

The new player holding the group back because they're watching CS, could be selfish on the first timer's part, but I think it's more SE's fault for allowing CSes in bad spots.
The 7 others are being selfish because they don't care about anyone else, they just want their tomes. They yell at anyone holding them back from getting their tomes even other people that skip CSes.

Like I said, it's a no-win situation on both sides. SE is being lazy by just saying "Handle it amongst yourselves". Which is good sometimes, but it's obviously splitting the community in half and leaving a very bad taste in some customers' mouths.

Sorry if I didn't explain it well.

[Darki]

It is not selfish to play the game as intended and get the full experience. It is so sad that people are such poor gamers they have no idea how to game.
"But 7 people want to grind and don't care at all about the noob and have no idea how to have fun with noobs ... what about them?"

They're getting tomes. To stand around and wait. Yes, that's how it works.
If they run ahead and kill everything, yes, they're being selfish.

Empathy does not mean "Oh, 7 people want to grind; I guess I will ruin my first time experience" or "Oh, the majority are selfish; I guess I should let them push me around."

Empathy means, "I was new once. I remember what that is like. Let's make sure the noob has fun, and hope they help the next noob have fun."

It's a lot more fun to be a gamer than a grinder.

Believe it or not. I actually agree. What I don't agree with is the anti-democracy messages being posted in this thread. That burns me.

Also, Empathy is a two way street. The best possible thing a new player could do, first thing is ask. Some people are more inclined to say "yes" if that much is honored. If you are willing to show empathy to others, then others are more inclined to return the favor or even better...pay it forward.

The worst thing a new player who wants to watch CSs could do is plant their feet and watch CSs without saying a word. I say this not just for the group's benefit, but for the benefit of the new player as well.

EDIT: Thank you for bringing a modicum of intelligence to the conversation.