I just wanted to point out a double standard...

[givemeraptors]

It's really not that hard to tell which DPS is pulling their weight unless you have multiples of one class and sometimes not even then. Just look at the buffs on the party and the debuffs on the enemy...
Can you see Chaos Thrust and Heavy Thrust? Is the SMN DoT'ing, Baning and Festering? Archer using AoE's, DoTs and Bloodletter? BLM flaring? Do you see explosions regularly? You can even tell which MNK is kickass by seeing whether they change stances for certain parts of the fight.

You honestly don't need a parser at all.

[Adol]

It's really not that hard to tell which DPS is pulling their weight unless you have multiples of one class and sometimes not even then. Just look at the buffs on the party and the debuffs on the enemy...
Can you see Chaos Thrust and Heavy Thrust? Is the SMN DoT'ing, Baning and Festering? Archer using AoE's, DoTs and Bloodletter? BLM flaring? Do you see explosions regularly? You can even tell which MNK is kickass by seeing whether they change stances for certain parts of the fight.

You honestly don't need a parser at all.

Are you honestly expecting someone to keep track of every single skill every dps in your party is using? That is absolutely ridiculous to expect of people who are busy pulling their own weight and doing their own job right in a fight, especially when such fights can last over 10 minutes.

[Lemon8or]

Just look at the buffs on the party and the debuffs on the enemy...

You can only see 5 buffs/debuffs total on the party list. Protect, Stoneskin and Galvanize count and has priority over individual buffs.
Edit: Medica 2, Regen, Whispering Dawn, Fey Illumination, Fey Covenant, Fey Glow, Fey Light all have priorities over individual buffs. Focus Target has the same 5 buffs/debuffs limitation so unless you're sitting there having one person targeted, you'll never see all of them.

Can you see Chaos Thrust and Heavy Thrust?

A dragoon spamming Chaos Thrust combo would still be doing subpar DPS even with Heavy Thurst on.

Is the SMN DoT'ing, Baning and Festering?

This still doesn't mean they're doing good damage. Are they popping Raging Strikes when possible? Are they using Contagion? Bane and Fester are easy to tell but that just means they're using abilities they have. Do you look at the pet too to see if the pet is not just doing auto-attack?

Archer using AoE's, DoTs and Bloodletter?

Archer's AOE are very easy to spot but did he pop B4B, IR, Hawkeye or any of the buffs before using it? Just because it is used doesn't mean he's doing enough damage. Same thing with DoT. Is that DoT buffed or not? Bloodletter has no special effect IIRC. Tell me how you spot that.

BLM flaring? Do you see explosions regularly?

Same thing with Summoners. Are those flare buffed or unbuffed? Is it in Astral Fire or Umbral Ice? Which stage of AF and UI is it in? Even then, it doesn't mean they're doing maximum DPS as you also have to track how long they are in UI phase, how much movement they're doing.

You can even tell which MNK is kickass by seeing whether they change stances for certain parts of the fight.

Changing stances is as easy as hitting the abilities. It has nothing to do with being good or not. This on top of MNK having a separate buff icon for the stances sometimes throw off GL icon on the party list which don't allow you to monitor if their GL3 is always up or it's down several times. Then comes the question: are they hitting from the right sides of the boss? are they missing their auto-attack? are they refreshing dot too early or it's never up at all?

You honestly don't need a parser at all.

If you can track all that, it still doesn't mean they have enough DPS to beat the fight. And really if you can track 4 other people's buffs, debuffs, timings and all that good stuffs, they should put you into a research facility.

[givemeraptors]

Are you honestly expecting someone to keep track of every single skill every dps in your party is using? That is absolutely ridiculous to expect of people who are busy pulling their own weight and doing their own job right in a fight, especially when such fights can last over 10 minutes.

For debuffs on the enemy you will see them naturally by keeping track of your own debuffs. It's all visual, it takes less than a second to note the little icons for everyone else. And sometimes you should be following them naturally anyway, SCH/SMN should be watching for Antibody, and BRDs should note when a DRG is using Disembowel (if not they should ask them to work it into their rotation).

You can only see 5 buffs/debuffs total on the party list. Protect, Stoneskin and Galvanize count and has priority over individual buffs....

...If you can track all that, it still doesn't mean they have enough DPS to beat the fight. And really if you can track 4 other people's buffs, debuffs, timings and all that good stuffs, they should put you into a research facility.

Most DPS won't have SS up except at the beginning of the fight. Even if all three of those were up constantly you'd still be able to see two other buffs. It's how I know a tank is rotating through their defensive buffs when I play SCH and not just leaving me to brute force heal through everything. And if anyone is going to have all those buffs up nigh-permanently throughout the fight it's the tank.

It doesn't require you to watch the party list like a hawk, but it is a good idea for DPS to glance over occasionally. BRDs and SMNs should already be doing this since they have a lot of support abilities. Then you just note whether you frequently see people buffed or not. I honestly just thought of that as normal gameplay. I "double-check" the party list no matter what role I'm playing because it just...makes sense.

Between that and the DPS that can't dodge you should be able to pinpoint the weak points in your party. If you're playing in a static or with an FC member you do 4-man content with it should be even more apparent.

*Also for MNK I meant switching between Fists of Fire/Earth/Wind not GL stacks. GL stacks don't really mean anything, haha. I met a MNK who would switch to Fists of Earth for big unavoidable AoEs and I was like "omg duh, why didn't I think of that!?" Ever since then I glance at the MNK in my party during Geocrush/Hellfire etc. I don't hold it against them, but it kind of helps distinguish the cooler MNKs.

[Lemon8or]

Most DPS won't have SS up except at the beginning of the fight. Even if all three of those were up constantly you'd still be able to see two other buffs.

I edited some more skills that the buff icon have priorities over individual buffs. Even then MNK has Fist abilities and forms icon that can take up 2 slots, SMN has Aetherflow, BLM has AF/UI that tells almost nothing about their abilities to do damage.

4-man content

4-man content it doesn't matter who's doing what really. They're tuned so you can easily pass.

Also for MNK I meant switching between Fists of Fire/Earth/Wind not GL stacks. GL stacks don't really mean anything, haha.

If you really think GL do not mean "anything", I have bad news for you. If you think +9% damage dealt and +5% attack speed for each GL stack, up to 3 times, doesn't mean anything while being so amazed towards the stances switching, you don't know monk as much as you think you do. Sure 10% damage reduction during unavoidable damage is nice but it's nothing that you can't get healed back just from the ongoing heal to the whole party. Monk has average magic defense so those skills don't really hurt much. For example, I'd rather use Fist of Fire, stand around where Titan lands for Geocrush cause I know I won't die and keep my Greased Lightning 3 (+27% damage +15% attack speed) then risk going into Fist of Earth (-10% damage received) and risk either lose GL3 or do 5% less damage on my next attack.

. . .and I'm not even in SCoB to comment on those.

Let me fill in for you.
Turn 6: Not killing bulbs leads to moving the boss in undesirable places leading to either people getting eaten -> boss do more damage or they take too much damage from briar + vine = wipe.
Turn 7: Not killing adds fast enough makes it ranging from extremely difficult to deal with voice/shriek to wipe when prosector casts hysteria on the tank and he voice you or Melusine absorbs all the health the prosector has. Boss has 11 minutes enrage.
Turn 8: Boss has 11 minutes enrage. Tanking dreadnaughts for too long increase chances of tank getting 1-shot if solo-tank or you don't do enough damage on the boss.
Turn 9: Boss has 13 minutes enrage. Not killing golems before another set/boss do megaflare = instant-wipe. Not getting boss to 47% in phase 3 before third heavensfall = most likely wipe. Boss has a soft enrage mechanics called Bahamut's Favour.
Also, Thornmarch EX: If you don't kill all the moogles at a good rate, you can't damage the king = wipe.

[givemeraptors]

I edited some more skills that the buff icon have priorities over individual buffs. Even then MNK has Fist abilities and forms icon that can take up 2 slots, SMN has Aetherflow, BLM has AF/UI that tells almost nothing about their abilities to do damage.

4-man content it doesn't matter who's doing what really. They're tuned so you can easily pass.If you really think GL do not mean "anything", I have bad news for you. If you think +9% damage dealt and +5% attack speed for each GL stack, up to 3 times, doesn't mean anything while being so amazed towards the stances switching, you don't know monk as much as you think you do. Sure 10% damage reduction during unavoidable damage is nice but it's nothing that you can't get healed back just from the ongoing heal to the whole party. Monk has average magic defense so those skills don't really hurt much. For example, I'd rather use Fist of Fire, stand around where Titan lands for Geocrush cause I know I won't die and keep my Greased Lightning 3 (+27% damage +15% attack speed) then risk going into Fist of Earth (-10% damage received) and risk either lose GL3 or do 5% less damage on my next attack.

I dunno what to tell you, I see Raging Strikes, Thundercloud/Firestarter procs, Straight Shot procs, Heavy Thrust and other buffs in the party window when I look up there. Maybe I just have lucky timing? But it's something I do pretty regularly and I've coached people in dungeons based on what I see there e.g. telling a LNC to use Heavy Thrust for the 15% damage boost because he never had it up.

I mentioned 4-man content because it's far easier to tell when a DPS is lagging there. And if you do 4 man content with an FC mate who isn't great, it's probably that same member in your static not pulling their weight. Obviously you can ignore this if you only run 8-man raids with your FC or don't overlap dungeons with static members. The DPS checks are otherwise negligible in 4-man dungeons unless you're not overgeared.

To clarify, I meant they don't mean anything in telling you that someone is doing good DPS, since like you said it happens automatically as you punch/kick things. A MNK that more actively switches between fists (doesn't have a CD or reset your combos so why wouldn't you?) is showing that they go the extra mile and are most likely putting extra effort into the rest of their playstyle i.e. probably not slacking in the DPS department. Especially if you opt to get stomped by Geocrush to maintain GL; from a healer's perspective the people who don't group for heals really annoy me, but I give them a pass if they at least make an effort at mitigation (Manaward, FoE). Lastly, I do think MNKs are hardest to tell whether they're doing good DPS outside of simply seeing whether they are doing positionals correctly.

In summary, I generally have no problem spotting the weak links in my group. I don't need a parser to do so. So from my perspective I think it would be rather unnecessary and only exacerbate PF hostility.

[Tiggy]

In summary, I generally have no problem spotting the weak links in my group. I don't need a parser to do so. So from my perspective I think it would be rather unnecessary and only exacerbate PF hostility.

Would you like a cookie? Clearly it isn't that easy for everyone else to multitask as well as you. You don't need to dash everyone's opinions to the ground because you're able to do something they can't.

Everyone has different skills and abilities. Try to put yourself in their shoes for a change and try to understand why these features would be useful to them even if they aren't useful to you. You aren't the only one playing the game. A lot of people need to remember that more often.

This isn't necessarily just meant for you. There are a lot of people in this thread that need to try to walk in another man/woman's shoes for a mile.

[givemeraptors]

Would you like a cookie? Clearly it isn't that easy for everyone else to multitask as well as you. You don't need to dash everyone's opinions to the ground because you're able to do something they can't.

Everyone has different skills and abilities. Try to put yourself in their shoes for a change and try to understand why these features would be useful to them even if they aren't useful to you. You aren't the only one playing the game. A lot of people need to remember that more often.

This isn't necessarily just meant for you. There are a lot of people in this thread that need to try to walk in another man/woman's shoes for a mile.

I'm not dashing anyone's opinions. I've barely stated anything about my personal opinion on parsers aside from that final statement (which isn't strongly worded at all). All I've been doing is elaborating that there are other ways to see how someone was performing.

I understand not everyone can multitask. But out of a group of 8 (especially in a progression oriented static) not a single person can be bothered to take note of these things? Healers are already looking at the party list constantly, does it really hurt your performance to glance at the buffs every once in a while as you click on people's names? The whole point is progression and improvement. Isn't everyone supposed to be learning, helping and observing each other anyway? If eight players are that concerned with meeting DPS checks and none can be bothered to look at the party list except to see who died, I think there are other things holding the group back.

[Lemon8or]

To clarify, I meant they don't mean anything in telling you that someone is doing good DPS, since like you said it happens automatically as you punch/kick things. A MNK that more actively switches between fists (doesn't have a CD or reset your combos so why wouldn't you?) is showing that they go the extra mile and are most likely putting extra effort into the rest of their playstyle i.e. probably not slacking in the DPS department. Especially if you opt to get stomped by Geocrush to maintain GL; from a healer's perspective the people who don't group for heals really annoy me, but I give them a pass if they at least make an effort at mitigation (Manaward, FoE).

Not true. Monk does crap for DPS when they don't keep GL3. It happens automatically but the upkeep is not automatic. It allows you 6 seconds of disconnect at most to keep it up. As for why I wouldn't, Fist abilities have a recast timer of 3 seconds shared between 3 fists that you can weave in between skills but it requires at least 1 GCD skill in-between to switch between stances optimally. It does show that the monk in question does make an effort to go the extra mile in the damage taken reduction. The question is whether that extra mile is worth it. I think not most of the time. I know I used to play safe and stack with other people and let they cure 3 and heal all of us but they love me even more when I play recklessly (the good kind) to keep that GL3 up since I do more dps = boss die faster = they have to heal less. Different opinions I guess. I'd rather kill the boss a little bit faster than stay alive longer.

[givemeraptors]

The thing you're missing is that players can keep these things up like you would expect them to to do good DPS. And then not do good DPS. There are things you cannot see. They might not have enough accuracy, and without inspecting their gear and doing the math, you might not know. They might be pausing longer between each GCD ability than they need to, and that time could only be a fraction of a second. Is Garuda on obey during a single target fight, since her multi hit ability lowers her DPS in that case?

I'll be the first to say not to harass someone. But they are part of the group, they need to be held accountable for their role in the group, just like the rest of us.

Parsers won't tell you that someone is pausing between GCDs (if they do that's news to me). They won't tell you that Garuda is on obey. Those are things you notice from watching someone play. As for accuracy, you can just ask someone what their accuracy is and let them know if they're meeting the cap. Before content that requires accuracy you can ask if everyone meets the threshold.

Clearly we disagree and/or just play differently and what is a problem for you is not a problem for me. But this isn't about me trumpeting my playstyle over yours, because I do think a parser would encourage poor sportsmanship, and given that there isn't a complete inability to gauge someone else's performance, I am disinclined to argue for the placement of a parser in-game.

Not true. Monk does crap for DPS when they don't keep GL3...

Gah, you're missing the forest for the trees. Just...nevermind.