DPS meters and why they're necessary

[Dyne_Fellpool]

Its very easy to see when a tank is doing a poor job.
Its also easy to tell when a healer is doing a poor job.
It can be very difficult to tell which dps is doing poorly when dps checks arent being met. (without parsers)

I dont understand why the first two are okay, but being able to see when a dps isnt playing well is not.

The only possible reason to not want parsers is because you dont want people to know you are playing poorly, and you have no interest in improving. Its ridiculous.
If you arent bad, you have nothing to fear from parsers. If you are bad, parsers can be a huge help for improving -- unless you just dont care in which case the other players depending on you should be able to know that.

Parsers are for gathering data and using it to improve, not for harassing people.
There will always be jerkwads that harass other people, with or without parsers. The thing is, most people dont and wont act this way. The few that do will, as I said, be jerkwads regardless.

This fear of parsers is just silly, I have played mmos with parsers for years and never heard anyone say they need to be removed. What I do see in those games is kudos given to dps that perform extra well, which is something sadly lacking in this game. "Great heals" or "nice tanking", sure, but you can't say "wow nice dps on that!" because omg ssshh! saying you parse can get you suspended!

[Lemon8or]

I went from an average of 280 DPS to 400 DPS

I and one of my FC member had the same experience. This was in 2.1 before Echo. I used to play safe on Titan EX when I first beat it and was informed that I was only doing 203 DPS at ilevel86 monk. I was shocked and black listed that guy cause well.... I didn't like it. Typical response when someone told you you suck. But instead of going on the forum complaining about it, I looked for ways to improve myself, including reading the monk temple thread thoroughly, test over and over again in Titan EX to see what kinds of limit I have, ask other monks for advice until someone told me I was doing 280 DPS at the same ilevel. See how a meter help?

[LetBloodline]

You're asking for valid proof of those who are against it so let me ask u then for more than 1 example of where a end user parser (or player) was needed or was crucial to improve PvE of a mmo game, not beta/alpha games we are talking about a end product here.

Every game where you need to test rotation, in wich you need to test different items with different stats, in wich player want to give their best and be able to check how they are doing. Pretty much every MMO out there

[Skyl1n3]

Let me ask you this one question: Let's say a party like that did show up, if you're confident with your numbers, then why not show them? To refuse will tell me that you probably know you're playing badly and don't want to improve.

I am confident with my DPS, I'm constantly topping my Raid groups because a couple of them have parsers and gives everyone in the party a read out at the end of how each person did sometimes, if their was one that DID stick out then at most we'd just talk about it and try to improve their performance.

As I said before, I'd want a training dummy at my FC's house to get your own DPS numbers from it and share them with my FC to see who's doing well to go on static Raids and whether or not some people can improve it.

Also anyone that keeps saying "if you don't want to show your numbers then you're obviously scared of showing how bad you are", is just an elitist viewpoint IMO.

[Sen_Terrechant]

Im okay with parsers as long as they arent used to harass and/or negatively affect someone else. Will they be used like this? No. Which in that case im okay with reporting people.

As someone doing T8 i rather like my friends parsers, they help me do better :]

[ParadiseCircus]

Every game where you need to test rotation, in wich you need to test different items with different stats, in wich player want to give their best and be able to check how they are doing. Pretty much every MMO out there

That was just an answer that falls in generalization missing the point of my request/question... read it again please.

Also anyone that keeps saying "if you don't want to show your numbers then you're obviously scared of showing how bad you are", is just an elitist viewpoint IMO.

I have to agree, it seems that they're trying to avoid the real issue or just don't want to be realistic about what involves this kind of requests. I wish it were that simple.

[Dwill]

I am confident with my DPS, I'm constantly topping my Raid groups because a couple of them have parsers and gives everyone in the party a read out at the end of how each person did sometimes, if their was one that DID stick out then at most we'd just talk about it and try to improve their performance.

Do you see the irony of that statement or do you need it pointed out ?

As I said before, I'd want a training dummy at my FC's house to get your own DPS numbers from it and share them with my FC to see who's doing well to go on static Raids and whether or not some people can improve it.

No one one is gonna lie about their numbers in with their raid spot in play

[Dwill]

Also anyone that keeps saying "if you don't want to show your numbers then you're obviously scared of showing how bad you are", is just an elitist viewpoint IMO.

Because you don't like this being an elitist viewpoint doesn't make it any less true.

That was just an answer that falls in generalization missing the point of my request/question... read it again please.

You want more than a game where parser played a crucial role in PvE ? WoW and Rift.

I have to agree, it seems that they're trying to avoid the real issue or just don't want to be realistic about what involves this kind of requests. I wish it were that simple.

You're using ignorance of the mass, fear mongering and a logical fallacy as your base arguments, can't provide any sort of concrete proof on how this would actually impact negatively the game yet we are the one missing the real issue ? You can't be serious.

[ParadiseCircus]

...

So you're telling me that Blizzard & Trion implemented an in-game parser like the one you demanding for? Where your dps is ranked among your party members or are you talking about 3rd party programs/mods?

Answer what I requested, you keep dodging it, tell me a scenario where a parser was crucial for a game, this means that it actually was added in a game.

Do you understand that your so called solid arguments are isolated experiences? You keep saying they will be for better but you haven't shown any proof of it, all I've read are personal experiences of WHY you think having a parser is necessary...

By the way never reference Wikipedia again please, it's terrible practice that must stop, in the end only discredits your arguments.

[Lemage]

Came for the title stayed for the dead horse. But anyway, if you have a few combos or you have buffs you have to refresh (I can only talk from a summoner and dragoon point of view for dps) then a dps meter isn't what we need, but rather an overall damage meter, and regardless it's not that hard to figure out your overall dps, solution? Play with FC buddies you know aren't bads if you're that disheartened by not having a dps meter.