DPS meters and why they're necessary

[ParadiseCircus]

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So you think they're gonna risk it because you think they won't have a massive exodus or they rep won't be affected? This involves many business/coummnity factors, you keep excluding those who are afraid of parsers like their arguments didn't matter, it would be really idiotic for SE to do that, they have to look for both sides, those who are ignorant & those who are informed.

[Dwill]

So you think they're gonna risk it because you think they won't have a massive exodus or they rep won't be affected? This involves many business/coummnity factors, you keep excluding those who are afraid of parsers like their arguments didn't matter, it would be really idiotic for SE to do that, they have to look for both sides, those who are ignorant & those who are informed.

The main argument of the ignorant is that people will be harassed, from which I've asked multiple people to provide sources or arguments proving their points. None of them can give me anything outside of sweeping generalization and anecdotal evidence.

Pro-parsers have valid arguments that parsers have been huge with great success in previous games and helped in the game's developement.
Anti-parsers are fear mongering the issue without any argument whatsoever.

[ParadiseCircus]

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Pro-parsers are confusing what is called development parsers with a end user parser, every game in development needs to have a way to test the damage you're a doing to X target so they can actually see if it's "killable" which also involves time & position, but that doesn't mean they have to give to the end game user a meter for it... as long as their numbers work they don't need to.

You're asking for valid proof of those who are against it so let me ask u then for more than 1 example of where a end user parser (or player) was needed or was crucial to improve PvE of a mmo game, not beta/alpha games we are talking about a end product here.

There're many experiences out there were people was kicked, bullied or banned from groups/fc because of parsers, that's where all bad rep comes from, it causes a toxic environment but if u want screenshots, chat logs & other stuff well that is just ridiculous so that's why I'm asking you for the same proof.

[LetBloodline]

You're asking for valid proof of those who are against it so let me ask u then for more than 1 example of where a end user parser (or player) was needed or was crucial to improve PvE of a mmo game, not beta/alpha games we are talking about a end product here.

Every game where you need to test rotation, in wich you need to test different items with different stats, in wich player want to give their best and be able to check how they are doing. Pretty much every MMO out there

[ParadiseCircus]

Every game where you need to test rotation, in wich you need to test different items with different stats, in wich player want to give their best and be able to check how they are doing. Pretty much every MMO out there

That was just an answer that falls in generalization missing the point of my request/question... read it again please.

Also anyone that keeps saying "if you don't want to show your numbers then you're obviously scared of showing how bad you are", is just an elitist viewpoint IMO.

I have to agree, it seems that they're trying to avoid the real issue or just don't want to be realistic about what involves this kind of requests. I wish it were that simple.

[Dwill]

I am confident with my DPS, I'm constantly topping my Raid groups because a couple of them have parsers and gives everyone in the party a read out at the end of how each person did sometimes, if their was one that DID stick out then at most we'd just talk about it and try to improve their performance.

Do you see the irony of that statement or do you need it pointed out ?

As I said before, I'd want a training dummy at my FC's house to get your own DPS numbers from it and share them with my FC to see who's doing well to go on static Raids and whether or not some people can improve it.

No one one is gonna lie about their numbers in with their raid spot in play

[Dwill]

Also anyone that keeps saying "if you don't want to show your numbers then you're obviously scared of showing how bad you are", is just an elitist viewpoint IMO.

Because you don't like this being an elitist viewpoint doesn't make it any less true.

That was just an answer that falls in generalization missing the point of my request/question... read it again please.

You want more than a game where parser played a crucial role in PvE ? WoW and Rift.

I have to agree, it seems that they're trying to avoid the real issue or just don't want to be realistic about what involves this kind of requests. I wish it were that simple.

You're using ignorance of the mass, fear mongering and a logical fallacy as your base arguments, can't provide any sort of concrete proof on how this would actually impact negatively the game yet we are the one missing the real issue ? You can't be serious.

[ParadiseCircus]

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So you're telling me that Blizzard & Trion implemented an in-game parser like the one you demanding for? Where your dps is ranked among your party members or are you talking about 3rd party programs/mods?

Answer what I requested, you keep dodging it, tell me a scenario where a parser was crucial for a game, this means that it actually was added in a game.

Do you understand that your so called solid arguments are isolated experiences? You keep saying they will be for better but you haven't shown any proof of it, all I've read are personal experiences of WHY you think having a parser is necessary...

By the way never reference Wikipedia again please, it's terrible practice that must stop, in the end only discredits your arguments.

[Ashkendor]

Anti-parsers are fear mongering the issue without any argument whatsoever.

Honestly, I'm not anti-parser at all and what I posted about people using it to harass others wasn't any kind of fear mongering or evidence of anything in particular.. It was merely meant to illustrate what I myself believe *could* be SE's thought process behind not implementing this themselves. The game has a wide appeal to both casual and hardcore players, so from a business standpoint they're going to tend to do what alienates the least amount of people - in this case, that seems to be not implementing a parser. *shrugs*

I personally don't care either way. I'm a paladin. I *know* my DPS sucks. :3