DPS meters and why they're necessary

[Lemon8or]

Often you don't even need a parser. Or any sort of metering. Observation and not being a dolt lets you see the person spamming only Full Thrust. Or the person always in UI. Or the person who never uses Bloodletter. Demanding you have tools to give you a better way to harass randoms isn't gonna happen. And if you're in a static, you're probably running a parser regardless because who is gonna ruin their static to tattle on someone using a parser?

Tell me how you observe 3 or 4 people's buff/debuff/dots while tracking boss's abilities when you're in a progression party (where dps numbers matter) and not an overgeared-for-content party. Some mistakes are more glaringly obvious than others but even your point of view limits you on what you can and cannot see.

[StubHub]

Some mistakes are more glaringly obvious than others but even your point of view limits you on what you can and cannot see.

Nor is it reasonable to expect from someone who's trying to perform as optimally they can themselves. I'm just a simple BLM. But in 2nd coil if i want to maximize everything i've got, eliminate enough movement as possible and push as much dps as i can. Sorry, i'm not paying attention to whether full thrust is up full time lol. Kudos to those that can do that. But it should not be expected.

[Jamez82]

Someone mentioned the pvp system showing damage. I dont see why they don't just add that in to the end of dungeons. Would help in determining commendations.

[Pooky_Pasha]

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Pretty much. There are just to many factors to rely on enmity bars, Elusive Jump/Quelling Strikes being the most obvious, and also stuff like Titan Gaols and other adds that will effect overall dps. Then there are SMN/DRG, who can very easily be 3-4 on dps enmity, but still output best dps

Anyway, anybody who is running a parser just to look at XYZ dps, or who want something just to tell them XYZ dps is doing it wrong. Knowing XYZ dps is pretty useless unless you have 1) a damage spread to go with it (knowing how your damage went out) and 2) know what to compare it to (which requires some knowledge of other's dps).

[AdmiralPinkins]

The other roles being terrible is immediately obvious. Being in pairs it also makes it easy for the competent of the two to point the finger at the other.
>People dying to damage that is supposed to happen -> healer sucks ->tell them to be ready/replace
>Adds running wild, dropping enmity off boss, bad positioning, isn't swapping correctly -> tank sucks ->tell them what to do/replace
>Conflags not dying, not making dps checks -> all 4 dps are terrible -> disband group.

There is no barometer for easily telling if the dps is dpsing properly. DPS, as of now, are only responsible for watching mechanics (which everyone has to do) and that's it.

I had suspicions that my FCmate was a terrible dps player. I acquired parser information, analyzed it, and coached this player. Immediately there was improvement and they ended up enjoying the class/job even more. They would've gone on forever in ignorance of their terrible performance. Meters pls.

[CyberW]

This thread is useless. You have parsers use them, yoshi said it himself just keep it to yourselves. If someone is doing bad in your party replace them. yea having a parser straight from SE would be best because then we all know who is the terrible one, but like i said as long as you keep it hush hush you know who to replace. You can't blatantly tell them "hey you suck get out, because your numbers are low" as long as you don't do that you'll be fine.

[givemeraptors]

Tell me how you observe 3 or 4 people's buff/debuff/dots while tracking boss's abilities when you're in a progression party (where dps numbers matter) and not an overgeared-for-content party. Some mistakes are more glaringly obvious than others but even your point of view limits you on what you can and cannot see.

I actually think it's the opposite. I tend to pay more attention to what my party is doing in difficult content than in easy content. This is because everyone needs to be way more up to speed for progression. With the exception of going in blind, most fights in this game have incredible easy mechanics. Whether the other 7 players can keep up with that while doing their job? Well... this is why I pay attention to my party members.

I had suspicions that my FCmate was a terrible dps player. I acquired parser information, analyzed it, and coached this player. Immediately there was improvement and they ended up enjoying the class/job even more. They would've gone on forever in ignorance of their terrible performance. Meters pls.

Nothing in this situation required a parser. It could just as easily be: you had suspicions, you coached them and saw an improvement i.e. things die faster.
I would also like to point out that these kinds of things are more relevant in FC/Progression parties where you're more likely to observe someone's playstyle over time and have a better sense of whether they need additional help.

[Ashkendor]

Eh. I can see both sides of this. For me, it would primarily be a tool for my own self-improvement. How do I measure up against other DPS in the party? How can I improve? Of course, there's always constructive criticism too. How can I help someone else improve? For some people, though, this would become just another tool to assist them in being elitist. SE seems to be wanting to cater to the casual gamers as well as their more hardcore players, so I can see why they wouldn't want to implement this in an official capacity.

[Lemon8or]

I actually think it's the opposite. I tend to pay more attention to what my party is doing in difficult content than in easy content. This is because everyone needs to be way more up to speed for progression. With the exception of going in blind, most fights in this game have incredible easy mechanics. Whether the other 7 players can keep up with that while doing their job? Well... this is why I pay attention to my party members.

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...nt/detail/747/
Nope. My point is that in a progression party, you should pay attention to yourself to do the best you can and the boss to deal with the mechanics. In a sense, I said exactly what you said, should pay more attention in the difficult contents compared to easy ones.
If you really think you can track all your party members' buff/debuffs/timing, I already answered you here:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post2201984

[ParadiseCircus]

I understand tanks & healers anger since their flaws can be easily spotted compared to DPS ones but I honestly think a DPS meter won't work that well since the equality you're demanding will end up adding more toxicity towards the end game content.

We should be looking for another solution & I do like the idea of having your own personal parser where people could be more conscious about their damage & even SE could show you a comparative of what your AVG should be for your job/class.