DPS meters and why they're necessary

[Dwill]

That is the most asinine statement. The existence of such proof can't exist like the evidence that a parser depicts skill.

If you can't prove it, that's not my problem. If you make a claim, you have to back it up.

You're the one asking for them to be added saying they won't be abused. That is your burden to prove.

Hmm, I wonder...

You should read this "pro parser" topic a little better, especially early on.
It's FULL of people advocating that you should use them in DF to kick people.
This happens a lot in ex primals & coil.

No one in my FC uses a parser (I know them all personally IRL)
My last FC with hundreds active, different story.

I've seen partial premades vote kick in DF more than a dozen times already.
The number of times I've seen "bad dps" and then vote kick pop up is disgusting.

I am sure lots don't do this, I try to believe not everyone is a d-bag, but enough are that it's a problem.

so let's see..

http://dictionary.reference.com/brow...n+of+proof?s=t
2. the obligation to establish a contention as fact by evoking evidence of its probable truth.

Yep. Your claim, therefore your burden of proof.

It's clear you are biased against parser without any proof to back up your claims and you've shown a few times that you don't even know about the stuff you're talking about. So here's my suggestion:

You can argue it semantically all you want. So give up while you're behind.

[Malric]

I find it amusing that real situations that happen in game now are referred to as semantic and anecdotal however the best of you claims the necessity of a 3rd party add-on in a game based on what? Things your "friend" tells you?

If you're not using one and proving real scenarios that happen, at best your using theory to claim fact on something that's being proven every day is untrue.

Not everyone end game is using a parser.
Yet plenty of people are running and winning end game.
This alone proves they are not necessary.

Unless you have 1st hand scenarios when you can show necessity and how parsers were needed to complete content then by your own standards you have nothing.

Since when is what your "friend" said evidence of anything?

[NoctisUmbra]

I find it amusing that real situations that happen in game now are referred to as semantic and anecdotal however the best of you claims the necessity of a 3rd party add-on in a game based on what? Things your "friend" tells you?

If you're not using one and proving real scenarios that happen, at best your using theory to claim fact on something that's being proven every day is untrue.

Not everyone end game is using a parser.
Yet plenty of people are running and winning end game.
This alone proves they are not necessary.

Unless you have 1st hand scenarios when you can show necessity and how parsers were needed to complete content then by your own standards you have nothing.

Since when is what your "friend" said evidence of anything?

It's safe to say every competent endgame progression team makes use of parsers. At least some of the players in there.

Of course after said progression teams clear content and strategies become widely known, one can simply follow the formula and eventually achieve results.

It would be absolutely naive to think cutting edge progression teams aren't using powerful tools that save a huge amount of time in developing strategies and increasing efficiency.

Of course, nobody can admit to using a parser without violating ToS. So don't mistake people not publicly owning up to using for a lack of use. Furthermore, don't think you're being clever by trying to bait people to violate.

If you're so keen on having this discussion directly with someone who uses a parser, I would be happy to put you in touch with my friend through another channel. Voice chat perhaps? Something tells me you're not intetested in that, however.

[SeraviEdalborez]

Not everyone end game is using a parser.
Yet plenty of people are running and winning end game.
This alone proves they are not necessary.

Define "winning end game". You would be hard pressed to find any of the first (let's say) 10 groups to clear T5 (before 2.2) or T9 (current) and see that not a single person in any of those groups used a parser to help improve the group's overall DPS. I'd bet money that this simply isn't the case; every single one of those groups didn't just "stumble upon" DPS good enough to win.

You can beat Extremes and T1-7 with subpar DPS just fine. So let's talk about what your definition of "winning end game" is.

[Dwill]

I find it amusing that real situations that happen in game now are referred to as semantic and anecdotal however the best of you claims the necessity of a 3rd party add-on in a game based on what? Things your "friend" tells you?

If you're not using one and proving real scenarios that happen, at best your using theory to claim fact on something that's being proven every day is untrue.

Not everyone end game is using a parser.
Yet plenty of people are running and winning end game.
This alone proves they are not necessary.

Unless you have 1st hand scenarios when you can show necessity and how parsers were needed to complete content then by your own standards you have nothing.

Since when is what your "friend" said evidence of anything?

If you think that at least not one person in nearly every endgame FC don't use a parser, you're highly disconnected from the reality of the endgame in this game.

[Malric]

It's safe to say every competent endgame progression team makes use of parsers. At least some of the players in there.

This would be where opinions differ.

I don't think it's safe to assume every group of high end players here are willing to risk their account nor do I believe these "cutting edge" players "need" a parser to do so.

I've been in some of the highest end statics running with many elite players in games where people don't use them at all.

The game designers don't make a game that requires 3rd party add-ons then ban them from use.

Even despite this, if you've read past the last pages here you would see two simple views:

1. I don't believe they are "needed". Our experiences tell us differently, neither really matter.
2. I don't really have an issue with them even in this game, except for being used in duty finder to kick people.

[LetBloodline]

I find it amusing that real situations that happen in game now are referred to as semantic and anecdotal however the best of you claims the necessity of a 3rd party add-on in a game based on what? Things your "friend" tells you?

Your "real scenario" is taking something that happen rarely (i have yet to see a kick for low dps, i see quit for bad group instead) so you must prove me that this is a spread problem. For my experience it is not

Plus parsers are indeed needed. It's not needed that everyone us it. You know strategy for taking down said boss tabks to other players beat it with parser.
You know the weight of secondary stats tanks to other study them with parsers
If you are interested in testing and min-maxing you need a parser

One player not having it while he play with party member with it or after saw guides made tanks to that is not proving that you don't need it. You admitted yourself that in a other game your party member had a parser and it was needed that at least one had it running

[LetBloodline]

The game designers don't make a game that requires 3rd party add-ons then ban them from use.

Unless you think they want to kick every player interested in min-maxing and teoricrafting about their game they actwally build a game where some NEED the parser and they didn't put one in it. This is the bigghest let down i have with this game

[Exstal]

I don't think it's safe to assume every group of high end players here are willing to risk their account nor do I believe these "cutting edge" players "need" a parser to do so.

It's easily safe to assume this. Why? They don't talk about it. There's no way for other people to know what they are using. Only a fool denies tools that make their job easier. Unless it's straight up cheating tools, but that's a different animal.

Edit: Actually, it's entirely possible. Out in the FFXIV world, there is a static of people who only use PS3/PS4 in their 8 people so they don't have access to a parser.

[Malric]

If you think that at least not one person in nearly every endgame FC don't use a parser, you're highly disconnected from the reality of the endgame in this game.

I am in 2 linkshells that combine to make one group of end game players.

I run end game content and not one group I've been in (and we're on TS) has anyone mentioned using or the need for a parser and I currently run end game as a healer, tank, and dps.

I'm thinking maybe it's you and your I can only assume SCH that are rather disconnected.

I've played half as long as you and I be willing to bet I'm more connected with end game play than you are.