This game is far to difficult.

[Xairos]

This is what I don't get, if you made the one-shot mechanics not one-shot anymore (or in an easy version of the raid), then you could possibly run into the issue of players forgetting that the difficulty is ramped up on the normal version.

ex: "Oh im not used to having to move for that part" If, for example if Twintania's conflags didn't kill you but did like 1/3rd damage.

I had a person completely ignore garuda (hard) cone aoe and dps her through the animation and we just burned her down. Anytime we get mechanics that dont outright kill us we wind up just blatantly ignoring. Ultimately I say keep the mechanics as they are so players can cut their teeth on em to try to get better.

[kazin]

+1 for content tiers. Currently SE is making two sets of content; CT for casuals and BCoB for the raiders. This means that each group gets new content every TWO patches when they really could be getting content every patch.

Imagine the progression was like this:

Game launch, patch 2.0...
BCoB1 => Normal => Exactly like it was in 2.0.

A few weeks later, patch 2.0.5...
BCoB1 => Easy => Mechanically easier, bosses with lower health and damage. Rewards: tomes *only*!

Patch 2.1 rolls around...
CT => Normal => More difficult than it was in 2.1. Rewards: i100 gear!

A few weeks later, patch 2.1.5...
CT => Easy => Exactly like it was in 2.1.

Patch 2.2 rolls around...
SCoB => Normal => Exactly like it was in 2.2.
Levi HM => "Easy" => Exactly like it was in 2.2 (story progression), except he now drops i90 weapons with some rarity.
Levi EX => "Normal" => Exactly like it was in 2.2, except he now drops i100 weapons (no mirrors anymore.)

A few weeks later, patch 2.2.5...
SCoB => Easy => Mechanically easier, bosses with lower health and damage. Rewards: tomes *only*!

Patch 2.3 rolls around...
CT2 => Normal => High tiered gear (i120?), challenging mechanics.
Ramuh HM => "Easy" => Story progression, lower tiered drops.
Ramuh EX => "Normal" => Higher tiered drops, more challenging mechanics.

You get the idea.

Casuals get basically the same progression that exists now except they can actually experience the coil storylines! Raiders get exclusive access to challenging content every patch instead of every other patch. Reserve titles, achievements, and the great loot for the normal mode rewards. It's not about the reward. There are *so many* players who just want to play the available content and experience the story in a *relaxed*, casual, "i am spending my limited entertainment time trying to relax after/before work" manner. These people just want to play a game to unwind and have fun; socialize with their FC, whatever.

Eventually (3-4 patches past initial release) the normal versions would be so outgeared that carries or casual completion is possible, even commonplace, so casual "collectors" looking to get the gear *can* do it, they just have to wait.

[ColorOfSakura]

Oh for the love of... Why do you people keep creating the same basic threads under different names....

And if you want easy raiding we already have that, it's called first coil(with the echo it as now), and if you want them to increase echo further sure why not, and crystal tower. Want an easier version of Second coil? It's almost certainly coming in 2.4

Did you...miss the first sentence of his post where he implicitly said he was talking about Turn 5 of Coil?

I personally disagree with the OP that the game is too difficult. The difficulty is right where it needs to be for the most part. It's not hard, but it can be challenging in certain areas. Best thing to do to clear Coil content is to get a static group together that can easily communicate with one another.

[Ransu]

Honestly if they made end game content any easier I'd probably be bored out of my mind. The mechanics of these fights are the only thing that overshadow the incredibly long GCD of this game. If the mechanics didn't keep me focused I'd just get bored of sitting around waiting nearly 3 seconds to do the next attack in my "combo" (if you can even call that a combo in this games extremely long GCD)

[kukurumei]

Did you...miss the first sentence of his post where he implicitly said he was talking about Turn 5 of Coil?

Twin is twin. 15% echo has made it pretty accessible, but still a tall wall for certain groups. For some reason, SE didn't raise it above 15%, which is just stupid, but they have their internal numbers, we have ours.

Twin at 35% would have made a lot of people happy.

Right now twin at 15% and i95~ gear is on Titan EX level challenge where you still have a wall that comes along with "extreme luck or social circle". At 35% that margin would have lowered a lot to make it further easier progression.

Twin still needs a very good tank, 2 above average healers, and 3 above average dps. Meaning you really can't get much progression going with a darth of tanks going on.

If it was 35% like it should have been, it would have downed to 1 above average tank, 2 average healers, 3 average dps.

The point is that they need to either keep buffing echo, or change echo to even out the tank/healer/dps skill averages. A tank with more HP will still kneel over if he is off the ball, while a dead dps is somewhat fixed by the echos, and going down a healer is pretty harsh as always.

On a side note, being able to carry 1 phoenix down has always been a stupid SE thought process. Many other games let you carry rez scrolls for any characters and is easily accessible. They were inferior to magic raise, but they made it where teams could support each other outside class.

[Alipoprocks]

On a side note, being able to carry 1 phoenix down has always been a stupid SE thought process. Many other games let you carry rez scrolls for any characters and is easily accessible. They were inferior to magic raise, but they made it where teams could support each other outside class.

You can't even use it in battle - completely useless.

[Kimikryo]

No carrot on the stick means the chocobo stops running.

Or in other words: No loot means peple do it once then never again

For Titan EX and T5, just for progression, I'd be fine with that.
Unless helping or getting it in roulette nobody is doing easy mode primals.

Apart from that. T5 isnt exactly hard. Movement failure and not knowing whats going on, No I haven't cleared it, but a bard can't do a lot if the tank dies for not being in Neurolink.

Titan Ex.... I am actually considering mercenary services, I am getting sick of those "derp" groups that call themselves farmgroups only to die to an easy avoidable WoL or killing others by placing the WoL badly

[Legacy_Wolfwood]

So I guess this means my group just sucks because we've been trying for months with echo and all of us at i90+.

if thats what you are guessing then that is up to you. but trying for "Months" with a full team of i90+ with echo and the same static over and over... sounds like someone or something that is related to the team is making the fight consistently unsuccessful.

just saying, if its a static and you all are over geared and trying for "months" with no progress. its not the fight mechanics as you had "months" to learn them.

ex: keep dying to twisters? move. focus target helps. divebombs? move. theres a big green/black circle. latency? thats not the fights fault tbh.

We know the fight. We know what's coming. It's a matter of actually doing it - that's where the difficulty comes in. We weren't good enough to beat it before. I get that.

see above. i'd expect a team learning for a month to know the fight. you should know whats coming then. not doing what you need to do is not the fights fault, thats the players end. thats not difficult if you had "months" of practice and learning.

But no matter what anyone here says, I still think it's a hard fight. Knowing it and being able to do it are completely different things.

the fight was not supposed to be easy in the 1st place. everyone knew that. but now people are able to be over geared and have an echo buff that makes the fight MUCH easier than before. Knowing it and being able to do it are the same things imo. with "months" of practice and learning, you should know whats coming and what to do. if you don't then you haven't been paying attention for "months" and just looking to get carried. so yeah, you should know and be able to do what you need to do.

I know Titan EX, too. Doesn't help when I accidentally move to early on Weight of the Land or get busted out of a Gaol into a landslide.

this is a bad example for your defense. you can move early on weight and do fine. keep moving and you'll avoid it, just try not to get your team killed by it. though 1 weight everyone should be able to eat with their ilvls now a days. and if you hit echo it'll be fine. 1 weight is better than multi stacked. but still shouldn't be getting caught in it. Getting busted out of a goal into a landslide, that is your teams fault. not the fight mechanics. if your team doesn't how to handle that situation after 1 time seeing it, then they don't know that fight as well as they thought.

i get it, we are human, we make mistakes. but you should be learning and fixing the mistakes that are able to be fixed. latency is the only thing you cant 100% fix. but blaming fight mechanics due to yourself or the team not learning and fixing is just sad.

[NaliaBrown]

i get it, we are human, we make mistakes. but you should be learning and fixing the mistakes that are able to be fixed. latency is the only thing you cant 100% fix. but blaming fight mechanics due to yourself or the team not learning and fixing is just sad.

I must not be stating clearly. I'm just trying to say that these fights are NOT EASY, even with echo and gear. I'm not blaming anything. I just want people to realize that this stuff isn't something that can be done easily and quickly if you have a static group. Seeing everyone posting here saying how easy the fight is is really discouraging to me. Maybe I'm just a slow learner, or my raid team is slow to learn. I don't know. But I'll repeat what I said - knowing what to do and actually doing it right are two very different things. And that's what makes fights like Twintania or Titan EX difficult. I refuse to believe that either of these fights are easy.

[Zarzak]

I have been stuck trying to clear Coil Turn 5 for months. I know how to do the fight perfectly but it doesn't matter if the others can't do it. I have joined countless "farm" parties that can't survive twisters. Finding a full party of decent players is like winning the lottery, clearly raids on this game are just to much for the majority of players.

Why can we not have two tiers of raids like WoW? Instead of making an even harder mode of Coil that nobody will be able to do, when its already extremely challenging,

Well A. The Raid finder has generally been considered the worst thing to ever happen. Ever. And is largely credited as the reason subs took a huge hit. But more importantly...

Bolded.


If you know the fight perfectly and are only failing because your groups with pugs and bad players. The content is not challenging and in fact it is not. Any RAIDER (not someone who says "I want to raid so I will!!" but someone who puts in the time, energy, and effort to know their class and the fight. Can and has (ask any guild working through 6-9) learned every fight in under 15 hours each. Which is less than a dozen instance timers.

Just because the raid content isn't being pugged (its RAID content it shouldn't be) does not make it hard. Raids are content designed for high end organized teams. CT is what your looking for if your not interested in joining one.

I refuse to believe that either of these fights are easy.

How long have you all spent as a group engaged on these fights? Because if it's less than 10 hours... It is easy you need to put more time in. If it's more than 20 hours your group has someone in it who is very very slow and/or not a raider.

No fights in this game are hard. Hell get a cheerleader squad. They learn cheers in less time than this I'm sure and if anyone believes FFXIV raids are not as choreographed as that they are not paying attention. You could LITERALLY write down a step by step guide to any class for any fight in the game right now. If a dog can learn how to open a door and play fetch someone with half a brain who cares enough to pay enough attention can do any of these fights.

Hell for arguments sake lets go through T5 as a melee dps in clip notes form.

Step 1: Tanks engage pick one of the adds and do your rotation until it dies.
Step 2: move to another add and repeat.
Step 3: move to the last add and repeat.
Step 4: move to Twintania and do your rotation
Step 5: Collar piece falls off. Hold until someone gets a red triangle over their head. If you go to step 6a. If not go to step 6b.
Step 6a: Move to designated fireball drop point (likely a pile of pets/OT or a stack of dps on your assigned side)
Step 6b: Move to Twintania and continue your rotation.
Step 6: Blue circle goes out on someone's head. If you go to step 7a. If not go to 7b.
Step 7a: Move under twintania in the middle of her target ring.
Step 7b: Take a couple steps back to ensure you do not end up inside conflag. Target and dps conflag once it appears.
Step 8: DPS conflag until someone gets a red triangle over their head. If you go to step 9a. If not go to step 9b.
Step 9a: Move to designated fireball drop point (likely a pile of pets/OT or a stack of dps on your assigned side)
Step 9b: Continue dpsing conflag until it dies.
Step 10: Once conflag is dead go back to dpsing Twin.
Step 11: Blue circle goes out on someone's head. If you go to step 12a. If not go to 12b.
Step 12a: Move under twintania in the middle of her target ring.
Step 12b: Take a couple steps back to ensure you do not end up inside conflag. Target and dps conflag once it appears. This is a short conflag pop short burns and dps conflag until it dies.
Step 13: repeat Steps 6-12 until a 2nd collar piece drops.
Step 14: Move to divebomb position (designated before pull)
Step 15: When green circle appears (or if you have Twin on focus as soon as she appears back on focus target) run forward 10 steps.
Step 16: Move back to divebomb position.
Step 17: Repeat steps 15 and 16 two more times.
Step 18: Target large snake in middle and while positioning at divebomb position dps for 45 seconds.
Step 19: Repeat steps 15 and 16 two more times while continuing to dps large snake.
Step 20: Repeat step 15 but this time continue running forward following the tanks and dpsing the large snake.
Step 21: Kill large snake. (don't worry about small snakes Mr. Melee the casters will handle them)
Step 22: stand in one of the previously dropped collar pieces until Twin finishes her cast.
Step 23: Attack Twin until she begins to cast Twister.
Step 24: Once twister begins casting run without crossing your own or anyone elses path until cast finishes.
Step 25: Go back to dpsing Twin while avoiding any green markers on the ground you may see.
Step 26: Dreadknight will spawn in the middle of the room. Run away from it until it has picked its target. If you go to step 27a. If not go to 27b.
Step 27a: Your stun locked. Enjoy the break to regen some TP and cheer your fellow dps on for keeping you from dying a horrible death.
Step 27b: One of your friends is stun locked!!!! Shoulder Tackle or Jump to that mean Dreadknight and kill it before your poor friend meets an untimely death.
Step 28: Repeat steps 23-27 until the final piece of collar drops.
Step 29: No more of those annoying twisters or Dreadknights! DPS twintania to victory! If she starts shooting fireballs at you see Step 30.
Step 30: FIRE RUN!!!!!!! (until it stops at least then back to Step 29!)