There needs to be some kind of "Intentionally Uncooperative" vote kick option

[ispano]

So player X doesn't do what you want when you want, even though the other people in the group are ok with it, so let's kick him because your opinion is more important? Do you kick summoners that don't shadowflare Garuda for the slow, that makes the tank take less damage?

First, stop assuming the people were ok with it. Do you realize how many people don't hit yes on a kick attempt because they think it's an abandon? Or those who just reflexively hit no? There are many who think that if they kick the tank, they will never get another one, which is likely closer to what was going on. It would mean they would have to leave and requeue and wait even longer. Doesn't mean that they're ok with it at all. Now, to answer your question, I don't kick anyone. I leave. But guess what, i'm usually the tank. I don't make rules, I don't force people to play a certain way. But if I feel someone is trolling the group, refusing to co-operate to make the encounter easier or simply even beat it, I will leave.

An example is a few DPS i've seen in Lost City. Especially one in particular, a Summoner. I saw him multiple times, and he never fixed the problem our group saw with him the first time. And that was that if the other DPS got eaten by the first boss, they died because the Summoner didn't dps the stomach at all, or just poorly. I expect a response along the lines of "the healer could just res the other DPS and you can continue on". But that would be ignorant. If both DPS performed at that level, or refused or whatnot, you would not clear the first boss. The healer would get eaten, and he'd die due to not being broken out. So why is it ok for one person, just ONE person to mess with a run like that, be it a minor or major thing? Why does everyone else have to make up for that person because they REFUSE to carry their own weight? Please, do tell me. Oh, and please tell me why we aren't "allowed" to nip these people in the bud by kicking them, when they're the ones causing problems.

[Dgsoil]

So you would be alright if there was a vote kick if someone was spirit bonding, because they are purposely lowering their stats, or what if you found out your summoner didn't have all 30 points in int, should we have a vote kick option for that too, that damned summoner not having all their stats in the right place to make your life easier?

Your comparison is terrible. It isn't correct at all, a more apt comparison would be your healer wasn't wearing a body piece. It isn't like someone going in spiritbond gear to a fight, it's someone not WEARING gear to a fight. It isn't about the stat loss per say, it's about the intention of trolling on purpose. You are OK with paladin's going into fights without shields, you've made your point already, we get it.

Stunning eruptions can also drop party dps

I only mentioned not having a shield would lower DPS because that was one of the first points YOU yourself brought up, but yes, continue playing both sides of the field to troll people, it's awesome and hilarious and you are super smart.

Do I think there should be an extra vote kick options? No. What this player was doing could be considered harassment if he was trolling and being a dick on purpose so there was already an option for it, which is what this thread is actually about in the first place. I'm done arguing semantics since this is just another thread derailed from the topic.

I was responding to someone saying the loss of the stats alone are worth kicking the paladin, that's why I brought up the fact that people spiritbond, I compared it to a belt because a belt has slightly higher stats than a shield of the same ilvl, where a chest piece is like three times the stats, that's not even close.

Once again you completely and utterly miss the point, it isn't about the stats given, it's about the choice he made of not wearing a piece of gear at all. You keep comparing stats, stats don't matter, if you are high enough ilvl to do the fight then I don't give a damn, if you come in missing pieces of gear into a fight though because you don't want to do something, that is an entirely different matter altogether. I brought up the shield increases paladin's DPS because YOU yourself said it was better for the PLD to focus on his damage.

[Saccharin]

I've been getting a few instances lately where the people are purposefully doing stupid stuff that's causing problems.

I make a harassment ticket in that case. It's answered in 10 mins. One character I reported hasn't logged since.

[Mcshiggs]

Your comparison is terrible. It isn't correct at all, a more apt comparison would be your healer wasn't wearing a body piece. It isn't like someone going in spiritbond gear to a fight, it's someone not WEARING gear to a fight. It isn't about the stat loss per say, it's about the intention of trolling on purpose.

I was responding to someone saying the loss of the stats alone are worth kicking the paladin, that's why I brought up the fact that people spiritbond, I compared it to a belt because a belt has slightly higher stats than a shield of the same ilvl, where a chest piece is like three times the stats, that's not even close.

Do I think there should be an extra vote kick options? No. What this player was doing could be considered harassment .

The OP tried to kick for harassment and failed, if he felt it was harassment, he should have reported and gone about his day, not come here and cry that we need another vote kick option.

you are super smart.

Thank you. If you stay in school and study hard I'm sure you will have a bright future.

[UBERHAXED]

So honest question. Why didn't the MT stun? If he was a warrior, then it'll be no problem. If he were a paladin, they could just switch roles? Do you see me vote kicking a healer every time they say they can't get the doors in City of Amdapor (which btw they should since no one is getting damaged while he casts for a good 15 seconds). You just want to do things your way, but there's an easy solution. I'm sure your party (rightly so) thought you were an idiot when you attempted the vote kick and that's why it didn't go through. You were probably quickly replaced and they one shot it after you left.

[Delnoir]

So honest question. Why didn't the MT stun? If he was a warrior, then it'll be no problem. If he were a paladin, they could just switch roles? Do you see me vote kicking a healer every time they say they can't get the doors in City of Amdapor (which btw they should since no one is getting damaged while he casts for a good 15 seconds). You just want to do things your way, but there's an easy solution. I'm sure your party (rightly so) thought you were an idiot when you attempted the vote kick and that's why it didn't go through. You were probably quickly replaced and they one shot it after you left.

I already answered. It's not that he wasn't trying. He did stun once or twice, but most of the time he was locked down by GCD. As for why they didn't switch roles I cannot say. He never really said anything for the entire time I was there.

[TeganLaron]

It doesn't really matter what reason you choose. It's not like you're going to get in trouble for picking AFK when someone was actually harassing you or vice versa. Devs have already basically said as long as the majority agreed to vote kick, that's a good enough reason for them.

[Vespar]

@OP I both like and hate this idea. I like it because I was recently in a similar position with a horrid WHM who refused to heal purely because she was "sleepy" (why que then?) and
I hate it because It should not have to come to that to get players to play nicely. People should be prepared to do their role upon queuing for a dungeon. If you're sleepy or watching your kid, or cooking supper, then please dont queue. Wait until your done the other task!

[Altaeciana]

Coincidentally, I made a topic about reform to the vote dismiss system. But not along the lines as being suggested here.

However, the bunch of you need to focus and come back to why this is a pertinent issue to overall game enjoyment.

As I recall, every automated ticket answer I get from the Support Desk includes some snippet about "we understand that you are trying to enjoy the game without interruptions and blah blah blah." If this is true in any sense, then surely something such as a player intentionally refusing to do their role, or even come properly prepared, is a relevant concern.

Yes, OP voluntarily joined a random duty. Note the key word here: Random. No one made him, or forced him to participate in what can be considered a gamble. ("It's like my momma always says, life's like a box of chocolates. Ya never know whatchu gonna get.")

But OP did not choose to suffer the trivial antics of what could possibly be a 12 year old on a sibling's account. (Remember, game is rated T for teen. Though of course, that doesn't prevent idiots from playing anyway).

Despite the mechanism behind matchmaking with random duty-finding setups, each participant has a typical set of expectations. 1. The party will consist of the basic setup: 2 tanks, 2 healers, 4 DPS. That means there are expectations that tanks will do what tanks are supposed to do, healers do what healers are supposed to do, etc. No, there doesn't need to be a profound level of proficiency, but at least the basics grasped since they are level 50 or whatever level of expected experience.

Ifrit HM: Are you to tell me that the OT without a shield is a grandmaster player of some kind? He played GLA and PLD through all its entirety to level 50 only to now come to a conclusion, "shields suck! I'm gonna throw mine away!" Highly doubtful! Of the dungeons he needs to complete via random DF queueing to progress through that storyline, he must have met people whom he had a shield on for. Or, he must have met people who made suggestions like, "umm... dude? Shouldn't you have a shield equipped?"

Don't try to defend someone like the described OT in OP's post. There is no excuse. It is a clear case of "trolling." While in combat, you cannot change equipment. So by not having the shield equipped, there is nothing he can do about it despite wipes, deaths, or defeats. Yes, after a defeat he can re-equip it. But oh gosh, look at that, forgot again! Oh well! Combat's already begun! Chop, chop! Ifrit's hungry!

Clear case of trolling and/or making lame excuses so he doesn't have to feel obligated to do something that would be "expected" of him. "I don't have a shield so I don't have to MT or be a stun biotch."

I firmly support any means to promote change for the vote dismiss system so that it can be more defensible vs those who take advantage of it, and to punish those who play solely to ruin others' experiences.

[Wulfyn]

Relax in the end it is just a game that seems like too many take too seriously. SO what if the party wipes? BFD imo. I only care when it's obvious that we're being wiped on purpose. Players need to learn and practice, need help. Some don't learn some do, usually won't learn when other's are being jerks. No patience at all is what I mostly see. Not like you lose xp or delevel ie: Dynamis.