Please Change the Wording for STR and DEX!

[MartaDemireux]

To be fair though, in things like D&D and such, you didn't get damage bonuses from DEX. Only chance to hit and such. Even with bows, your chance to hit was based on DEX. But not your damage. Certain bows allowed you to add your STR bonus, to a point, to damage, but not DEX. Even Rogues didn't get bonus damage to melee weapons from DEX, but since they had an innate sneak attack, it didn't matter if their STR was low.

Yeah, to be honest there's really no point in having a separate stat for bow attack power in this game either. All it effectively does is lead to a varying appearance in gear due to basing gear sets on different stats. The actual functionality of it remains largely unchanged. PGL and ARC high-allagan body armor for instance have the exact same values of defense, magic defense, criticial hit rate, skill speed and vitality. The only difference is ARC's has DEX and PGL's has STR but they're still the same values.

But it's far too late in the games life to change an entire stats mechanic/system. Not too late to clarify it's use/correct the statement though and pave the way to get future classes/jobs on a more thematic and archetypal gear set!

[Sakasa]

Not too late to clarify it's use/correct the statement though and pave the way to get future classes/jobs on a more thematic and archetypal gear set!

Well they might add gear that carries both str and dex again when the level cap is increased so newer players won't have to get both. But on that point eventually they will have a split again when the new end game is set. And while it is possible they could use dex in a core melee situation or str in a core range situation or even pie for special damage types those would be exception added to the class/job so They wouldn't actually need to change the tool tip if the core rule applies. So reduce titan's str reduces damage making virus no different and following the rule so no exception. Now we do not really have an exception in the game at this point so the change of the tool tip would not be needed.

Also; off topic: Mitsuda Yasunori + Soken Masayoshi Track Collaboration 2015!

[Radacci]

I'm hoping it's not Dex, but a lot of people seem to believe it might use it.

(I personally thought they'd save Dex for the gun based class they have in the works)

a lot of ppl are delusional, like those ppl that thought sch artwork, wasnt sch.
or ppl that think nin will be dex, just cause it was in (insert list of other games)

(*: I'm running on the assumption that Guns will use DEX in similarity to ARC and that Twinblades will use DEX based on the recent .dat mining of traits. Traits can be found HERE and my rough translation can be found at the bottom of the post HERE)

Are you going to ignore that Lv X Petrify and Stone, is listed together with Batraal skills, suggesting that Batraal uses Stone and lv X petrify? it doesn't.
They aren't listing skills in order, and nowhere does it specifically say that dex boost is for rogue/nin...so ppl should stop saying (as you can see here, *nin will use dex*)
Also, i'm going to assume those traits are for gun class.

Your wording would suggest that ACN/SMN/CNJ/THM/WHM/BLM would do increased damage with str....they dont, except for AA, which is hardly their main source of damage.
No one is confused about what str description means...you're just confusing yourself over twinblades, because you're expecting it to be dex based...which it wont be.
did you even look at your own wording? you include every single melee wep into str, except daggers...and include daggers with all the ranged weps.......really? you don't see the logical fallacy?
str=melee weps
dex=ranged weps
daggers=melee weps=str.


also remember, they REMOVED elemental wheel....to SIMPLIFY the game...why would the suddenly complicate things by giving ninja, different mechanics?? and change how dex work, for ninja specifically?
the reason for shield lob, talon, etc being str....is for simplicity. cause if they were dex based, they would do shit damage, cause melee classes dont use dex gear.
do you think spear throwers throw further/harder with dex or str?....yah, not dex...
the entire concept of dex increasing any kind of damage, is stupid cliché, to begin with.
actually str should increase bow damage also, because the further back you can pull the string, the more powerful recoil, and the more force will go into the shot.

[Jacost]

The point of DEX being the basis for Rogue damage is that instead of hitting the enemy really hard the way a normal melee class does, they aim for the vital points, thus requiring the ability to aim for and reliably strike a certain part of the enemy body.

That said I can see them being a crit based class as well, which would get the point across just as well.

[Radacci]

The point of DEX being the basis for Rogue damage is that instead of hitting the enemy really hard the way a normal melee class does, they aim for the vital points, thus requiring the ability to aim for and reliably strike a certain part of the enemy body.

That said I can see them being a crit based class as well, which would get the point across just as well.

The classical dex rogue gets its damage from fast attacks, and crit chance/damage.
it's sort of what MNK is doing currently. They do less damage than DRG, but attack much faster, and therefor does as much damage as DRG, if not more.
Nin is probably going to be something similar. It could be crit based instead of SS, like MNK....but would be annoying if you needed to crit, to reach DRG/MNK DPS lv; especially at low lv, when your crit rate is low.

pretty sure i heard from some where that they are redoing the ENTIRE stat system so that one job doesn't put all their points into one stat, so this whole thread is pointless.

not unless they are planning to change the stats on all the gear, also? cause DRG get only str on all their gear...or are they gonna add dex/pie/int/mnd also? or does suddenly all physical classes have to fight over all the accessories? Oh hai, im DRG, but i'll take that High Allagan Accessory of Aiming, k thnx....you know,,,cause i want crit chance, and acc...and parry...no hard feelings.

[Ruethryl]

The classical dex rogue gets its damage from fast attacks, and crit chance/damage.
it's sort of what MNK is doing currently. They do less damage than DRG, but attack much faster, and therefor does as much damage as DRG, if not more.
Nin is probably going to be something similar. It could be crit based instead of SS, like MNK....but would be annoying if you needed to crit, to reach DRG/MNK DPS lv; especially at low lv, when your crit rate is low.

not unless they are planning to change the stats on all the gear, also? cause DRG get only str on all their gear...or are they gonna add dex/pie/int/mnd also? or does suddenly all physical classes have to fight over all the accessories? Oh hai, im DRG, but i'll take that High Allagan Accessory of Aiming, k thnx....you know,,,cause i want crit chance, and acc...and parry...no hard feelings.

Then we're back to 1.0 stat system if they do that.. PIE DRG gooo! or was it DEX DRG? been too long.

[Radacci]

Then we're back to 1.0 stat system if they do that.. PIE DRG gooo! or was it DEX DRG? been too long.

yes, there was a bit of pie in there think it was something along the line of 60% STRawberries, and 40% pie, to be optimal
str was AA and skill damage, pie was skill damage; but less than str. But the higher you increased your str, the more points it cost, so it was better to pump up pie instead, then.
it was to easy to mess it up, and become gimped...

[JonMcFluffy]

pretty sure i heard from some where that they are redoing the ENTIRE stat system so that one job doesn't put all their points into one stat, so this whole thread is pointless.

[MartaDemireux]

Okay, been gone from forums a bit so here we go with some replies

Are you going to ignore that Lv X Petrify and Stone, is listed together with Batraal skills, suggesting that Batraal uses Stone and lv X petrify? it doesn't.

They mentioned they will be introducing exceptionally hard modes for a current dungeon. My bet would be on that one. Perhaps it gains those skills or gains a pet that uses them.

They aren't listing skills in order, and nowhere does it specifically say that dex boost is for rogue/nin...so ppl should stop saying (as you can see here, *nin will use dex*)
Also, i'm going to assume those traits are for gun class.

You're free to assume all you want. I will not be rude to you or hostile for your opinion and expect the same civility in return. However they do list a full suite of traits and they are in order albeit reverse order (the first skill is 48 and they go in order down to level 8). All but 3 are explicitly for Rogue based on the mechanics they told us about, the remaining 3 (which are needed to complete Rogue's suite) are the stat boosts which just so happen to be the DEX ones in the proper placements. Could they be for the Musketeer coming in 3.0? Perhaps. More likely that they belong to Rogue in my opinion.

Your wording would suggest that ACN/SMN/CNJ/THM/WHM/BLM would do increased damage with str....they dont, except for AA, which is hardly their main source of damage.

I do not believe my wording suggests that. DoM do not use Attack Power for anything other than auto-attacks. Their Attack Power is generated by STR, though. I stated this clearly in the post.

also remember, they REMOVED elemental wheel....to SIMPLIFY the game...

No that wasn't the case. They removed elemental weaknesses so that certain mages wouldn't be left out of certain content. BLM's main damage source is fire so they wanted to make sure they would still get invites to Ifrit. Yoshi-P actually uses that exact example if I recall. It was from an interview a year ago.

why would the suddenly complicate things by giving ninja, different mechanics?? and change how dex work, for ninja specifically?

My suggestion changes absolutely no mechanics in the game. DEX has no effect on ranged attack skills. All physical (melee and ranged) attack skills use Attack Power. Certain weapons derive their Attack Power from either DEX or STR. It really is that simple, cut and dry. The game has no way of recognizing if you used a ranged attack or not. You can use Venomous Bite and Straight Shot on MRD/GLA/PGL/LNC if you wish to see it for yourself. If you look at PGL high-allagan body and ARC high-allagan body you'll see they have the exact same stats minus STR and DEX which are of the same value. This shows that by giving NIN the DEX set there would be no difference in any calculations. The only thing that would change would be the gear appearance which hardly means anything now with glamor.

actually str should increase bow damage also, because the further back you can pull the string, the more powerful recoil, and the more force will go into the shot.

I do agree with you here. However as I said just a moment ago it's pretty much too late for that. We already have DEX in the game and we already have entire armor sets devoted to it. Simply changing the wording in the tool-tips to represent what they actually do does not take nearly as much effort. As Rogues and Fencers would thematically use DEX even in a real-world application I feel it would be more appropriate than STR.

pretty sure i heard from some where that they are redoing the ENTIRE stat system so that one job doesn't put all their points into one stat, so this whole thread is pointless.

Where have you heard this? I haven't heard anything of the sort and would be interested in reading it.

This is just another thinly veiled attempt at suggesting ninja use dex

No that was not my original intent. My original intent is simply that DEX does not affect ranged attacks. It affects the Attack Power of Bows. I later edited in the Twinblades part due to the data mining results and my own translations. You can entirely ignore the Twinblades part if you wish. My argument holds true for Ranged Attacks not being affected by DEX.

Yes I do believe DEX fits Rogue/Ninja better from an archetypal standpoint but I do wish to see them wear the Fuma set. It was purely an example based on the data mining.

Uou're jumping for a quality of life improvement you don't even know if you'll need.

We already need it. It's not for Rogue/Ninja. It's for making it clear that DEX does not affect ranged attacks as there are ranged attacks which do not use DEX. Physical attacks (melee and ranged) use Attack Power. Attack Power is based on either STR or DEX depending on the weapon. Cut and dry. That's all I'm advocating in actuality.

[Radacci]

Okay, been gone from forums a bit so here we go with some replies


They mentioned they will be introducing exceptionally hard modes for a current dungeon. My bet would be on that one. Perhaps it gains those skills or gains a pet that uses them.



You're free to assume all you want. I will not be rude to you or hostile for your opinion and expect the same civility in return. However they do list a full suite of traits and they are in order albeit reverse order (the first skill is 48 and they go in order down to level 8). All but 3 are explicitly for Rogue based on the mechanics they told us about, the remaining 3 (which are needed to complete Rogue's suite) are the stat boosts which just so happen to be the DEX ones in the proper placements. Could they be for the Musketeer coming in 3.0? Perhaps. More likely that they belong to Rogue in my opinion.



I do not believe my wording suggests that. DoM do not use Attack Power for anything other than auto-attacks. Their Attack Power is generated by STR, though. I stated this clearly in the post.


No that wasn't the case. They removed elemental weaknesses so that certain mages wouldn't be left out of certain content. BLM's main damage source is fire so they wanted to make sure they would still get invites to Ifrit. Yoshi-P actually uses that exact example if I recall. It was from an interview a year ago.


My suggestion changes absolutely no mechanics in the game. DEX has no effect on ranged attack skills. All physical (melee and ranged) attack skills use Attack Power. Certain weapons derive their Attack Power from either DEX or STR. It really is that simple, cut and dry. The game has no way of recognizing if you used a ranged attack or not. You can use Venomous Bite and Straight Shot on MRD/GLA/PGL/LNC if you wish to see it for yourself. If you look at PGL high-allagan body and ARC high-allagan body you'll see they have the exact same stats minus STR and DEX which are of the same value. This shows that by giving NIN the DEX set there would be no difference in any calculations. The only thing that would change would be the gear appearance which hardly means anything now with glamor.



I do agree with you here. However as I said just a moment ago it's pretty much too late for that. We already have DEX in the game and we already have entire armor sets devoted to it. Simply changing the wording in the tool-tips to represent what they actually do does not take nearly as much effort. As Rogues and Fencers would thematically use DEX even in a real-world application I feel it would be more appropriate than STR.



Where have you heard this? I haven't heard anything of the sort and would be interested in reading it.



No that was not my original intent. My original intent is simply that DEX does not affect ranged attacks. It affects the Attack Power of Bows. I later edited in the Twinblades part due to the data mining results and my own translations. You can entirely ignore the Twinblades part if you wish. My argument holds true for Ranged Attacks not being affected by DEX.

Yes I do believe DEX fits Rogue/Ninja better from an archetypal standpoint but I do wish to see them wear the Fuma set. It was purely an example based on the data mining.



We already need it. It's not for Rogue/Ninja. It's for making it clear that DEX does not affect ranged attacks as there are ranged attacks which do not use DEX. Physical attacks (melee and ranged) use Attack Power. Attack Power is based on either STR or DEX depending on the weapon. Cut and dry. That's all I'm advocating in actuality.

I think Brutal is just for coil, otherwise i think there's map ahrimans that use lv X petrify, and cast stone.

Not unless they do a stat revision, as someone mentioned. Otherwise any and all melee wep classes will be based on str, anything else would just be weird.

if you read the description for dex, it says *Affects physical ranged damage* how can that be misinterpreted? venom bite/straight shot is ranged for archer, not for gld/mrd/etc.
for simplicity sake, talon/tomahawk etc, are based on physical melee damage=str, otherwise they would do shit damage.
as you said, bow gets damage from dex, since it's ranged wep. twinblades are not ranged weps, therefore they do not get damage from dex.

as i stated before dex based combat should only affect accuracy, and crit rate, parry/block; that alone wouldn't be enough in this game though. Unless they add lots of complexity to stats. like increased crit damage stat.
otherwise it makes no sense for dex to affect direct damage.

ACN get int boost, it doesn't help a sch, at all.
Rogue might get dex stat, but not for damage.
well they might get something like cleric stance, that dex<->str, but that's just weird; boosting dex, just to convert it to physical melee damage.