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  1. #21
    Player
    kiraan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    263
    Character
    Kiraan Kosmos
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 60
    I kind of understand that you want the tooltip to be a bit clearer, as in it should state what is the primary power stat for a job.

    I can't understand why you want to twist the already in game system, so other "melee" job use DEX as their primary power stat instead of STR.
    (0)

  2. #22
    Player
    ispano's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    2,753
    Character
    Melfina Amastacia
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by kiraan View Post
    I kind of understand that you want the tooltip to be a bit clearer, as in it should state what is the primary power stat for a job.

    I can't understand why you want to twist the already in game system, so other "melee" job use DEX as their primary power stat instead of STR.
    It's because in more traditional RPGs, a rogue type would be based around DEX, not STR. ie they do damage by being dexterous and hitting vital points more easily. But not all were like that.
    (3)

  3. #23
    Player
    MartaDemireux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,044
    Character
    Hiraeth Petrichor
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 90
    Yes, it's as ispano said. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogue_%...acter_class%29

    It's also simply that DEX doesn't affect ranged damage in this game even though the tool-tip says it does. There are plenty of weapons in the history of video games that would classify as using DEX as well that they could add to this game. To make them use STR just doesn't sit well with me. And then you have all the possible ranged attacks they could add to our existing and future melee classes and jobs but they won't be using DEX as the tool-tip suggests they would. It's messy this way. It's much neater and accurate for the tool-tip to just specify the weapon type that the stat gives AP to.

    There was a lot of misinformation going around when the game was launched due to people thinking those 3 attacks were based on DEX. In fact, Tomahawk at least (and likely the others) WERE based on DEX when they were added. It was only after the devs realized in doing this they made the attacks useless (the classes were put on STR gear and their AP scaled with STR). Now attacks just use AP and AP is derived from either DEX or STR depending on the weapon type you have equipped.
    (1)
    Last edited by MartaDemireux; 06-17-2014 at 02:14 PM.
    * I fully give permission for any of my written ideas to be used by SE without recognition.

  4. #24
    Player
    ispano's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    2,753
    Character
    Melfina Amastacia
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by MartaDemireux View Post
    Yes, it's as ispano said.

    It's also simply that DEX doesn't affect ranged damage in this game even though the says it does. There are plenty of weapons in the history of video games that would classify as using DEX as well that they could add to this game. To make them use STR just doesn't sit well with me. And then you have all the possible ranged attacks they could add to our melee classes and jobs but they won't be using DEX as the tool-tip suggests they would. It's messy this way. It's much neater and accurate for the tool-tip to just specify the weapon type that the stat gives AP to.
    To be fair though, in things like D&D and such, you didn't get damage bonuses from DEX. Only chance to hit and such. Even with bows, your chance to hit was based on DEX. But not your damage. Certain bows allowed you to add your STR bonus, to a point, to damage, but not DEX. Even Rogues didn't get bonus damage to melee weapons from DEX, but since they had an innate sneak attack, it didn't matter if their STR was low.
    (1)

  5. #25
    Player
    MartaDemireux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,044
    Character
    Hiraeth Petrichor
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by ispano View Post
    To be fair though, in things like D&D and such, you didn't get damage bonuses from DEX. Only chance to hit and such. Even with bows, your chance to hit was based on DEX. But not your damage. Certain bows allowed you to add your STR bonus, to a point, to damage, but not DEX. Even Rogues didn't get bonus damage to melee weapons from DEX, but since they had an innate sneak attack, it didn't matter if their STR was low.
    Yeah, to be honest there's really no point in having a separate stat for bow attack power in this game either. All it effectively does is lead to a varying appearance in gear due to basing gear sets on different stats. The actual functionality of it remains largely unchanged. PGL and ARC high-allagan body armor for instance have the exact same values of defense, magic defense, criticial hit rate, skill speed and vitality. The only difference is ARC's has DEX and PGL's has STR but they're still the same values.

    But it's far too late in the games life to change an entire stats mechanic/system. Not too late to clarify it's use/correct the statement though and pave the way to get future classes/jobs on a more thematic and archetypal gear set!
    (0)
    Last edited by MartaDemireux; 06-18-2014 at 04:30 AM.
    * I fully give permission for any of my written ideas to be used by SE without recognition.

  6. #26
    Player
    Sakasa's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    405
    Character
    Sakasa Kuro
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Armorer Lv 58
    Quote Originally Posted by MartaDemireux View Post
    Not too late to clarify it's use/correct the statement though and pave the way to get future classes/jobs on a more thematic and archetypal gear set!
    Well they might add gear that carries both str and dex again when the level cap is increased so newer players won't have to get both. But on that point eventually they will have a split again when the new end game is set. And while it is possible they could use dex in a core melee situation or str in a core range situation or even pie for special damage types those would be exception added to the class/job so They wouldn't actually need to change the tool tip if the core rule applies. So reduce titan's str reduces damage making virus no different and following the rule so no exception. Now we do not really have an exception in the game at this point so the change of the tool tip would not be needed.

    Also; off topic: Mitsuda Yasunori + Soken Masayoshi Track Collaboration 2015!
    (0)

  7. #27
    Player
    Radacci's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    1,699
    Character
    Austen Bloodspatter
    World
    Omega
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Shioban View Post
    I'm hoping it's not Dex, but a lot of people seem to believe it might use it.

    (I personally thought they'd save Dex for the gun based class they have in the works)
    a lot of ppl are delusional, like those ppl that thought sch artwork, wasnt sch.
    or ppl that think nin will be dex, just cause it was in (insert list of other games)

    Quote Originally Posted by MartaDemireux View Post
    (*: I'm running on the assumption that Guns will use DEX in similarity to ARC and that Twinblades will use DEX based on the recent .dat mining of traits. Traits can be found HERE and my rough translation can be found at the bottom of the post HERE)
    Are you going to ignore that Lv X Petrify and Stone, is listed together with Batraal skills, suggesting that Batraal uses Stone and lv X petrify? it doesn't.
    They aren't listing skills in order, and nowhere does it specifically say that dex boost is for rogue/nin...so ppl should stop saying (as you can see here, *nin will use dex*)
    Also, i'm going to assume those traits are for gun class.

    Your wording would suggest that ACN/SMN/CNJ/THM/WHM/BLM would do increased damage with str....they dont, except for AA, which is hardly their main source of damage.
    No one is confused about what str description means...you're just confusing yourself over twinblades, because you're expecting it to be dex based...which it wont be.
    did you even look at your own wording? you include every single melee wep into str, except daggers...and include daggers with all the ranged weps.......really? you don't see the logical fallacy?
    str=melee weps
    dex=ranged weps
    daggers=melee weps=str.


    also remember, they REMOVED elemental wheel....to SIMPLIFY the game...why would the suddenly complicate things by giving ninja, different mechanics?? and change how dex work, for ninja specifically?
    the reason for shield lob, talon, etc being str....is for simplicity. cause if they were dex based, they would do shit damage, cause melee classes dont use dex gear.
    do you think spear throwers throw further/harder with dex or str?....yah, not dex...
    the entire concept of dex increasing any kind of damage, is stupid cliché, to begin with.
    actually str should increase bow damage also, because the further back you can pull the string, the more powerful recoil, and the more force will go into the shot.
    (8)
    Last edited by Radacci; 06-17-2014 at 07:37 PM.

  8. #28
    Player
    Jacost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    316
    Character
    Jeyrr Stenn
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 90
    The point of DEX being the basis for Rogue damage is that instead of hitting the enemy really hard the way a normal melee class does, they aim for the vital points, thus requiring the ability to aim for and reliably strike a certain part of the enemy body.

    That said I can see them being a crit based class as well, which would get the point across just as well.
    (2)

  9. #29
    Player
    JonMcFluffy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    7
    Character
    Jon Mcfluffy
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 50
    pretty sure i heard from some where that they are redoing the ENTIRE stat system so that one job doesn't put all their points into one stat, so this whole thread is pointless.
    (0)

  10. #30
    Player
    Radacci's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    1,699
    Character
    Austen Bloodspatter
    World
    Omega
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacost View Post
    The point of DEX being the basis for Rogue damage is that instead of hitting the enemy really hard the way a normal melee class does, they aim for the vital points, thus requiring the ability to aim for and reliably strike a certain part of the enemy body.

    That said I can see them being a crit based class as well, which would get the point across just as well.
    The classical dex rogue gets its damage from fast attacks, and crit chance/damage.
    it's sort of what MNK is doing currently. They do less damage than DRG, but attack much faster, and therefor does as much damage as DRG, if not more.
    Nin is probably going to be something similar. It could be crit based instead of SS, like MNK....but would be annoying if you needed to crit, to reach DRG/MNK DPS lv; especially at low lv, when your crit rate is low.

    Quote Originally Posted by JonMcFluffy View Post
    pretty sure i heard from some where that they are redoing the ENTIRE stat system so that one job doesn't put all their points into one stat, so this whole thread is pointless.
    not unless they are planning to change the stats on all the gear, also? cause DRG get only str on all their gear...or are they gonna add dex/pie/int/mnd also? or does suddenly all physical classes have to fight over all the accessories? Oh hai, im DRG, but i'll take that High Allagan Accessory of Aiming, k thnx....you know,,,cause i want crit chance, and acc...and parry...no hard feelings.
    (0)
    Last edited by Radacci; 06-17-2014 at 10:13 PM.

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