MAGE STRIKE

[Gramul]

I can play whatever job I want (which btw is pre-1.18 CON) but no one wants me in parties.
It's about CON, who is now "Heal Bitch" and can never be anything else. (Until the devs change it).

I'm sure they will. There's still the Job system to think about.

Black people will always be black, but they choose to live in societies run by white people?
That's what it sounds like you're saying to me. It's still fucking arrogant and offensive.

Racism is racism, but prejudice and bias are universal in these analogies.

I have no idea why you think I'm saying that. I'm saying that this is a videogame where you can choose your identity. Race and Sex are things you are born with.
If you're going to compare race and sex in real life to the game, do it with the actual races and sexes of the game. Aspects you can't change once the character is made.
I still think job discrimination is a better comparison:

"I can work whatever job I want (which is currently pre mid-1970s janitor) but no one wants me to do under the table repairs.
It's about janitors, who is now "Clean Bitch" and can never be anything else."

[Shai]

I'm sure they will. There's still the Job system to think about.


I have no idea why you think I'm saying that. I'm saying that this is a videogame where you can choose your identity. Race and Sex are things you are born with.
If you're going to compare race and sex in real life to the game, do it with the actual races and sexes of the game. Aspects you can't change once the character is made.
I still think job discrimination is a better comparison:

"I can work whatever job I want (which is currently pre mid-1970s janitor) but no one wants me to do under the table repairs.
It's about janitors, who is now "Clean Bitch" and can never be anything else."

Ok - I'm sorry. I didn't mean you are literally saying that.
But just because I choose to be CON doesn't mean I should be called names or told I've been put in my place. It's similar (in nature) to saying "You don't feel you're treated fair as a black man in USA? Move to Africa." Similar, certainly not the same and I didn't mean you yourself were literally saying it.

CON was born with Fire and Flare and Burn and Rasp.
It came to 1.18 and was told "We know you can do lots of things, but too fucking bad."
Similar to black slaves - maybe they were powerful and popular in their native land, too bad.
See? I know there's a distinct and vastly less important difference. I'm just drawing analogies.

The reason I'm even doing it at all is because people think it's fine and fair to say "CON should stay in the back, resting for MP and not playing or helping in anyway - like it was designed to!" They say it as if its not offensive or ignorant or intolerant of others feelings or play-styles in any way. First of all, it was in fact designed to be whatever I wanted it to be - be that nuker, tank, support, or strict healer. Now, it's been forced into slave labor because no one will want a CON in the party for anything other than what it's EXTREMELY good at (and that they have no alternative because they can't count on THM for heals or raises in a pinch).

So I hope this clears it up for you. I totally realize they aren't the same thing. I'm only taking what people have said about the CON change and drawing parallels to real life and what clearly everyone can agree on is ignorant and offensive to illustrate just how rude people are being to those of us who don't like CON the way it is now and don't have any other job like the one we were playing 2 days ago (that we liked) to fall back on.

I'm sorry it's so difficult to express to people.

[Gramul]

Thank you.
I think I understand where you're coming from. You feel that the job you originally signed up for and enjoyed has become restrictive. The gameplay style you had fun with has shifted to take a more set role as a healer instead of the unique class you where led to believe it would always be.

[Shai]

Thank you.
I think I understand where you're coming from. You feel that the job you originally signed up for and enjoyed has become restrictive. The gameplay style you had fun with has shifted to take a more set role as a healer instead of the unique class you where led to believe it would always be.

Yes, that is how I feel.

But my analogies originally started because I had said I don't want to read Page 2-4 (max posts per page) because of how hurtful and ignorant people were being. I was trying to take something we all commonly accept as ignorant and rude (sexism) and compare it to the things people were saying about us CON who are unhappy. Such comments like "CON is meant to be healer from the start so suck it up." (False) and "Mages should always be managing MP and resting between Cures." (False, as proven by pre-1.18 XIV) etc etc much like saying women should always be in the kitchen is ridiculous and false and we all except that to be true (well, except the % of people who believe it).

And even further because the vast majority of these statements were coming from non-mages. There are some mages who like the changes, but they don't say "it's where we belong" (though they do say we suck as mages). Honestly, how does not liking the change make me suck as a mage? I just got to the final boss of Darkhold thank you very much. I can play mage very well. It's just an ignorant and offensive statement.

Ah so (at long last) that is all I was saying. Haha. Let us carry on!

[Bled]

Ok - I'm sorry. I didn't mean you are literally saying that.
But just because I choose to be CON doesn't mean I should be called names or told I've been put in my place. It's similar (in nature) to saying "You don't feel you're treated fair as a black man in USA? Move to Africa." Similar, certainly not the same and I didn't mean you yourself were literally saying it.

CON was born with Fire and Flare and Burn and Rasp.
It came to 1.18 and was told "We know you can do lots of things, but too fucking bad."
Similar to black slaves - maybe they were powerful and popular in their native land, too bad.
See? I know there's a distinct and vastly less important difference. I'm just drawing analogies.

The reason I'm even doing it at all is because people think it's fine and fair to say "CON should stay in the back, resting for MP and not playing or helping in anyway - like it was designed to!" They say it as if its not offensive or ignorant or intolerant of others feelings or play-styles in anyway. First of all, it was in fact designed to be whatever I wanted it to be - be that nuker, tank, support, or strict healer. Now, it's been forced into slave labor because no one will want a CON in the party for anything other than what it's EXTREMELY good at (and that they have no alternative because they can't count on THM for heals or raises in a pinch).

So I hope this clears it up for you. I totally realize they aren't the same thing. I'm only taking what people have said about the CON change and drawing parallels to real life and what clearly everyone can agree on is ignorant and offensive to illustrate just how rude people are being to those of us who don't like CON the way it is now and don't have any other job like the one we were playing 2 days ago (that we liked) to fall back on.

I'm sorry it's so difficult to express to people.

Just to hopefully clear the air, Yoshi laid out the job system pretty straight forward one class one job. Whether or not that was a good call by the development team we knew looking at both CON and THM that big changes where about to happen. With all that said is it not understandable to concede to the fact that at least one of the two classes was going to get some pissed off people, it just so happens they effed up MP at the same time really making matters worse.

It was easy to come to the conclusion during the announcement of the job system that both classes were going to be redesigned to be pigeonholed into healer or nuker. The problem lies in the MP coasts which only needs adjustment, no real mind boggling problem.

[Shai]

Just to hopefully clear the air, Yoshi laid out the job system pretty straight forward one class one job. Whether or not that was a good call by the development team we knew looking at both CON and THM that big changes where about to happen. With all that said is it not understandable to concede to the fact that at least one of the two classes was going to get some pissed off people, it just so happens they effed up MP at the same time really making matters worse.

It was easy to come to the conclusion during the announcement of the job system that both classes were going to be redesigned to be pigeonholed into healer or nuker. The problem lies in the MP coasts which only needs adjustment, no real mind boggling problem.

Yeah he also said...

Classes will remain solo-friendly, and "build your own class" freedom.
Job System will overlay that to give you a more defined role in the party.

Where'd that go exactly? Did he forget to add "except CON which we decided is healer now."

Edit: I mean that's really what bothers me. I said it before and I'll say it again. I'd love to play White Mage the way I just played CON in Darkhold. It's the perfect healer and it was pretty fun cause I like healing. However, I was under the (apparently false) impression that classes were going to continue to be relatively unrestricted and malleable.

[Bled]

Yeah he also said...

Classes will remain solo-friendly, and "build your own class" freedom.
Job System will overlay that to give you a more defined role in the party.

Where'd that go exactly? Did he forget to add "except CON which we decided is healer now."

Edit: I mean that's really what bothers me. I said it before and I'll say it again. I'd love to play White Mage the way I just played CON in Darkhold. It's the perfect healer and it was pretty fun cause I like healing. However, I was under the (apparently false) impression that classes were going to continue to be relatively unrestricted and malleable.

I know I'm speaking from a low man stance being only rank 25. Today while grinding in a LS group our GLA had to leave the group, we had no PUG.. what we did have was 3ARC, 1THM, 2CON, and myself LNC. Logically looking at that set up i was going to have to tank if we wanted to continue or until a GLA or PUG came online. i spent the next hour after that with a redesigned action bar tanking mobs effectively enough to not slow in SP/hour.

Now i know this is lowbee stuff and maybe end game is different but that was pretty damn cool, being able to redesign my action bar with tanking abilities and still dish out high DPS with abilities like Faint and Doomspike while sustaining constant HP with speed surge.

[Shai]

I know I'm speaking from a low man stance being only rank 25. Today while grinding in a LS group our GLA had to leave the group, we had no PUG.. what we did have was 3ARC, 1THM, 2CON, and myself LNC. Logically looking at that set up i was going to have to tank if we wanted to continue or until a GLA or PUG came online. i spent the next hour after that with a redesigned action bar tanking mobs effectively enough to not slow in SP/hour.

Now i know this is lowbee stuff and maybe end game is different but that was pretty damn cool, being able to redesign my action bar with tanking abilities and still dish out high DPS with abilities like Faint and Doomspike while sustaining constant HP with speed surge.

I mean this is just my opinion, but that's exactly what was (is) awesome about the game! A lot of people clamoring for "more defined roles" just didn't understand that they were expected to design and assign the roles themselves! and because SE needs to make money on this game, they're shuffling to make it more like successful models (XI & WoW, among others like EQ). It drives me crazy because I think XIV (at its core) was a pretty awesome game and people just misunderstood it - or maybe I'm just old and the games I like and think are innovative don't appeal to the masses.

Either way, what's happened as of 1.18 is Conjurer is now the definitive "best healer." Could THM do it still? Low level, definitely. Grind party? with a good tank then definitely as well. However, the only test of our mettle at the moment are AOE-spammy free roaming NMs and AOE-spammy Dungeon Bosses. Guess who has AOE cures? CON. Guess what the solution to not having the MP and not desiring the enmity to AOE cure is? Not bringing MRD or LNC anywhere and attack with ARC while a Gladiator holds it steady.

It's not nearly as bad as XI was throughout most of its life, but I definitely think this is a step in the WRONG direction. I think the Job System (as I recently said) was going to put this limiter on people and give them more tools to function as specific roles - such as Healer, Nuker, Ranged, DD, Support, Tank, etc - but unfortunately (and especially in the content designed for R45-50) they've really jumped the gun and nailed down CON hard as "you will heal and do nothing else."

It's really sad because before CON could do a lot of things to help win difficult (hm, maybe poor choice of words) fights.

[Oscillate_Wildly]

I know I'm speaking from a low man stance being only rank 25. Today while grinding in a LS group our GLA had to leave the group, we had no PUG.. what we did have was 3ARC, 1THM, 2CON, and myself LNC. Logically looking at that set up i was going to have to tank if we wanted to continue or until a GLA or PUG came online. i spent the next hour after that with a redesigned action bar tanking mobs effectively enough to not slow in SP/hour.

Now i know this is lowbee stuff and maybe end game is different but that was pretty damn cool, being able to redesign my action bar with tanking abilities and still dish out high DPS with abilities like Faint and Doomspike while sustaining constant HP with speed surge.

Yes! That's what's so lovely about this game. I know at first I was a little meh about not having a set tank, but now it's absolutely brilliant. That's def. something that hasn't changed for many classes across the board. Love lancer, DPS is still great.
I as hoping they'd continue along this line of thinking for mages. ):