Protesting Frontlines

[Ransu]

In other words, I enjoy pvp AND enjoy getting the gear. Is there a problem with both?

Yes, you rely on gear rather than skill.

[Akira340stx]

Yes, you rely on gear rather than skill.

And this my friends is the classic example of someone who loses more matches than they win in pVP,they think they offer us wise philantropic notes as to why winning doesn't mean everything.you are wrong! gear progression in pve and gear progresion in PVP is no different, same concept. THE GRIND= The Reward. your smoking choco dung if you think its cool to waste peoples time and money. Since when do we punish high level players in any format just to satisfy the fears of a new player base and punish players who legitimately spent hours and hours trying to receive marks. I just did frontlines and recieved 345 marks in one match. it would have taken 3 straight wins in WD to do that before, so isn't that incentive enough?!!! And why shouldn't we complain, because players like Ransu suck? Thats not a good enough reason for me

[Ransu]

The classic retort of "you must suck." The logic behind this retort is kind of sad really. I suck at pvp yet you all are begging to hold onto a gear advantage. Its pretty sad. You're so terrified of losing that advantage because without gear you realize you're not that good.

[Akira340stx]

The classic retort of "you must suck." The logic behind this retort is kind of sad really. I suck at pvp yet you all are begging to hold onto a gear advantage. Its pretty sad. You're so terrified of losing that advantage because without gear you realize you're not that good.

Simple logic will tell you that when I first started pvp I had no gear to begin with, just like EvERYBODY else. Did I whine when fully geared players with a bevy of morale and materia were spanking me. NO! I said I'm gonna grind this thing out. practice and persevererance makes better players not the magic wand u apparently have to automatically be good at everything as u claim

But like I said its simple logic, and judging from the last 122 post you've' spewed onto these forums in the last few months that are full of snarky judgment and devoid of any substance, you know not of what i speak of

[Ransu]

Simple logic will tell you that when I first started pvp I had no gear to begin with, just like EvERYBODY else. Did I whine when fully geared players with a bevy of morale and materia were spanking me. NO! I said I'm gonna grind this thing out. practice and persevererance makes better players not the magic wand u apparently have to automatically be good at everything as u claim

But like I said its simple logic, and judging from the last 122 post you've' spewed onto these forums in the last few months that are full of snarky judgment and devoid of any substance, you know not of what i speak of

That's an incredibly flawed logic. "I had to grind so everyone else should suffer." I hate that logic. Its beyond childish. I've been grinding pvp gear in multiple MMO's and always min/max in them, but it doesn't change the fact that I believe pvp stats are a flawed design and frontlines is a positive step in moving away from it.

[Akira340stx]

Your fourth sentence contradicts your first, you're confused, and incredibly short-sighted. You've been "grinding pvp gear in multiple MMO's and always min/max in them" but somehow its "flawed logic" to believe that the players who have done the very same thing that you have described in this game for pvp gear, don't deserve to complain when said gear is now a superficial trumped up vanity piece in FL? do you read what you post. Its wannabe eliticism.

[Ransu]

Your fourth sentence contradicts your first, you're confused, and incredibly short-sighted. You've been "grinding pvp gear in multiple MMO's and always min/max in them" but somehow its "flawed logic" to believe that the players who have done the very same thing that you have described in this game for pvp gear, don't deserve to complain when said gear is now a superficial trumped up vanity piece in FL? do you read what you post. Its wannabe eliticism.

Wow you are really digging here. Wasn't contradicting anything, just simply pointing out that I've done the grind in other games as you seem to like to suggest I haven't in your prior post. I enjoy pvp so I deal with the gear grind, doesn't mean that I don't find the entire mechanic of a pvp stat to be incredibly flawed.

[Rawk]

Yes, you rely on gear rather than skill.

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...nt/category/5/ #JustSaying you can't really say I rely on gear rather than skill. I've never been fully decked out, and still just recently got at ilvl90. I'm also 1500 wolves den matches in, and months worth of pvp. It's easy for someone who doesn't pvp often to state "well who cares about that gear" but its different when we've had pvp gear in the game since the start of pvp and we've worked towards it and have earned it. The fact is that SE did put pvp gear in and they did put morale stat in already and then ripped it away from people who enjoyed pvp really is my main issue.

How much experience do you have in PvP with FFXIV? Do you even know that ilvl70 pvp gear can stand up against an ilvl100? You have very little experience in FFXIV's pvp yet you swear up and down its gear > skill. I don't understand, how do you know?

EDIT: http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...nt/category/5/ <-- Mine for comparison.

[Ransu]

The fact is that SE did put pvp gear in and they did put morale stat in already and then ripped it away from people who enjoyed pvp really is my main issue.

Ya? Whats your point? I played swtor from launch and did nothing but pvp and geared through every tier of pvp gear and then BW implemented bolster which allowed pve gear to get expertise stat when entering a warzon. I was perfectly fine with it. I didn't get all pissy because they "killed my hard work" (cuz grinding is so hard *rolls eyes*). SE is doing the right thing just like BW is with bolster for swtor.

Even if I did bother to grind the gear in this game (No way in hell I would. I tried and got a two hour queue several days straight for wolves den so ya, screw that), I'd say the same exact thing. Removing pvp stats from frontlines is a good step forward.

[Rawk]

Ya? Whats your point? I played swtor from launch and did nothing but pvp and geared through every tier of pvp gear and then BW implemented bolster which allowed pve gear to get expertise stat when entering a warzon. I was perfectly fine with it. I didn't get all pissy because they "killed my hard work" (cuz grinding is so hard *rolls eyes*). SE is doing the right thing just like BW is with bolster for swtor.

Cool story, let's compare apples to oranges, because hey they're both fruit. FFXIV is basically saying "use pve gear for frontlines". SWTOR said "You can now use pve gear in pvp". See how that's different? They caught everyone up, instead of removing the rewards. I've stated in the past on this thread, I wouldn't mind if everyone had a fast pass to morale gear but they left it in tact. Instead they took away pvpers rewards instead of giving pve-casuals faster rewards. All they would need is ilvl70 gear a bit of learning experience, then they'd be fine. But you'd know that if you played pvp.

I played SWTOR too, you're not the only one.

See in FFXIV they give us pvp gear, we were like okay. They then gave us awesome animal gear, teased frontlines at the same time, and even frontline CS has people in animal gear. The preview originally of the animal pvp gear said "Frontlines" on the art page. EVERYTHING was leading us on to think that pvp gear could *gasp* be used in pvp, and then shortly before frontlines is finally being released they drop the bomb that "oh yeah pve gear will be better". What would be better would be "we're making it easier to get pvp gear." even having ilvl70 craftable would work. The truth is, people say this morale thing is this huge ungodly advantage when it's not. It is an advantage, but it's not as high and mighty as people think. Usually its by the few that pvp'd a couple of times, got stomped and blamed it on the gear. When in truth, it was mostly them, somewhat the gear.