NINJA and ROGUE confirmed

[Nero]

Actually, almost everyone that facepalms at the idea of implementing RNG as a second job off of ARC, it gets brought up *all the time* that ARC is already RNG. The 2 trademark abilities that RNG has had are Barrage and Aim. ARC explicitly *gets* Barrage and Hawk's Eye is Aim (short duration, increased damage, cannot miss).

RNG branching from ARC is not a new Idea and has been brough up and agreed on a lot of times. And No, Archer is not Ranger. The same way Paladin is not Gladiator and Warrior is not Marauder. The same way Ninja will not be Rogue and Thief is also not Rogue. Archer don't have to work 100% the same like it did in previous FF Titles and the same goes for THF. Actually Bard has proven, that it can differ a lot from how it plays in comparsion to other titles.

Furthermore, those of us that get aggravated about the THF fanbois insisting that THF should be brought into game and/or that it will be brought into game it's basically because you're asking for the developers to waste development resources.

Consider this: the only possible role for THF to fill within the confines of the trinity is DPS (Support isn't a role, it's a subrole; with the hypothetical hybrid role, how does THF get interpreted as either healer *or* tank without stretching the entire theme to the point of incredulity?). NIN is already a DPS and jobs only bring 5 abilities so any other DPS built off of ROG would play just like NIN (because NIN already plays like ROG with a slight modification).

We don't know how Rogue and Ninja play, but from what has been said so far, they play different in most aspects. Being Class and Job and using the same Weapon, does not mean they play the same way. THF can still be DPS and also can be "Support". Yea, you are right.. support is not a role.. yet, still can work as one, the same way BRD can work as one, while being a DPS.

Adding THF to ROG as a second job is basically wasted development resources because it's not *adding* anything to the game: THF would still play *just* like NIN with a few *tiny* differences (you now use Steal to get a job specific resource to fuel special attacks instead of using mudras). The only major difference would be that it's called THF instead of NIN and has a different look (90+% of a class/job's functionality is derived from the class, not the job).

Same thing again. Look at how SMN and SCH are different from each other, even if you claim: (90+% of a class/job's functionality is derived from the class, not the job) So why would that not apply to THF and NIN?

(90+% of a class/job's functionality is derived from the class, not the job)To the people that seriously want to see THF brought in as a job, I challenge you (the "THF can will be a job" people) to come up with 5 *useful* abilities that would not be absolutely positively broken while simultaneously explaining how those 5 abilities (and just those 5 abilities; saying that a whole slew of class abilities will be entirely rewritten when you swap to said job is just saying admitting that you can't change the playstyle with just a job) will completely and totally change how a class plays when it converts over to a job (and you cannot simply put together 5 attacks that replace the ones the class gets; the devs are correcting the unintentionally unused abilities so designing a class that *purposefully* renders a large number of abilities from the base class useless is just inane).

5 you want?

1) Steal

Cast Instant, Recast 480, TP Cost 500

Can steal an Item, which would drop from the Treasure Chest, after defeating it. Chance of Success: 10%

2) Treasure Hunter

Cast Instant, Recast 720, TP Cost 250

Improves the successrate of Steal by 15%, lowers your defense by 15% in exchange.

3) Sneak Attack

Cast Instant, Recast 180, Duration 30 sec

Must be executed from behind, with PT member between you and the Target.

Increases your Atk by 15% if successfull, STR of the PT Member by 5%, lowers your defense by 15% if failed. Successrate: 70%

4) Trick Attack

Cast Instant, Recast 360, Duration 30 sec

Must be executed from flank, with PT member between you and the Target.

lowers your Atk by 15% if successfull, lowers Atk of the PT Member by 5%, increases Steal by 5% and next SA by 30%.

5) Gil Toss

Cast Instant, Recast 480, TP Cost 200

Does throw a random number of Gil out of the PT total pool ( max 50k ) at the Enemy and in exchange can incease the Droprate of rare Items. In example Mounts.


Lol.. i made those up in like what? 2 Minutes? The 5 Job Abilities can change the Class and its gameplayA LOT.

"Changing how the class plays" doesn't just mean "I added an attack"; it means making it so that the base class goes from playing like LNC to playing like PUG or from SMN to BLM (e.g. it is a recognizably different *playstyle*). DRG adds the jumps, but it is still fundamentally LNC. WAR adds the Wrath stuff, but it plays *exactly* like MRD 90% of the time. PLD plays exactly like GLA. All of the jobs (with the exception of SCH because it's a completely different role that uses a completely different suite of abilities) are simply a small set of bonus conditional options (or abilities that are used but do not interfere with the existing playstyle). If you honestly think that THF can coexist with NIN as a ROG job, come up with some way for it to coexist rather than co-opt it.

It is the way how you choose the Abilities and how the actual Job can make use of the Class Skills. Let's just assume that there will be THF beside NIN, they both don't have to share the same Cross-Class Abilities and also do not have to share the same Base-Stats. They also could be a different role, without being both DPS or both can be DPS, but one can be supporter and the other "Debuffer". IT is quite possible, so i don't see a Problem here.

I am not saying Thief is coming, or should come.. tbh i do not really care, but to say it is impossible is just not true.

[Kitru]

5 you want?

Yes, but you seem to have missed where I said "useful abilities that would not be absolutely positively broken".

1) Steal

Cast Instant, Recast 480, TP Cost 500

Can steal an Item, which would drop from the Treasure Chest, after defeating it. Chance of Success: 10%

You're providing an explicit economic advantage to the class and providing absolutely nothing for it's *real* job: killing stuff. Plus, the 8 minute CD and 500 TP cost basically make it unusable.

2) Treasure Hunter

Cast Instant, Recast 720, TP Cost 250

Improves the successrate of Steal by 15%, lowers your defense by 15% in exchange.

Another case of a 12 minute CD with a crazy high TP cost so that it's effectively unusable and, in fact, this is even worse design because you're just providing a longer term ability that exists purely to augment an existing single purpose ability. You're separating a single ability into 2 because you can't think of anything else.

3) Sneak Attack

Cast Instant, Recast 180, Duration 30 sec

Must be executed from behind, with PT member between you and the Target.

Increases your Atk by 15% if successfull, STR of the PT Member by 5%, lowers your defense by 15% if failed. Successrate: 70%

3 min CD with incredibly limiting requirements. This isn't FFXI where people just stand around doing nothing for long periods of time waiting for tp so that they can actually attack. People actually *move* in FFXIV.

4) Trick Attack

Cast Instant, Recast 360, Duration 30 sec

Must be executed from flank, with PT member between you and the Target.

lowers your Atk by 15% if successfull, lowers Atk of the PT Member by 5%, increases Steal by 5% and next SA by 30%.

Similarly limiting, even longer CD so that that there's even less reason to use it, plus the only value in it is increasing the value of an ability on a 3 min CD and actually penalizes your ally for "helping" you.

5) Gil Toss

Cast Instant, Recast 480, TP Cost 200

Does throw a random number of Gil out of the PT total pool ( max 50k ) at the Enemy and in exchange can incease the Droprate of rare Items. In example Mounts.

I have no idea how you can *imagine* this to be anything resembling a balanced ability. This would make it so that THF is effectively *required* for running absolutely anything because you're having it modify drop rates.

Lol.. i made those up in like what? 2 Minutes? The 5 Job Abilities can change the Class and its gameplayA LOT.

I'm curious how exactly an 8 min CD with a 12 min "buff" to it, a 3 min extremely restricted CD with a 6 minute extremely limited buff, and a ridiculously broken 8 min CD that doesn't affect your combat capabilities in the *least* affect gameplay. You're acting as if *Hallowed Ground* fundamentally changes how PLD plays compared to GLA (here's a hint: it doesn't mainly because it's on a 7 minute CD). You couldn't even come up with abilities that fulfilled the two qualifications I put up there: they needed to actually be *useful* without being broken as hell (and, yes, providing one class/job with explicit loot advantages/modification capabilities is *broken as hell*).

With those abilities, THF would *still* be using all of the same attacks as ROG, which means that it would still share almost everything it does with NIN. You didn't do jack shit to prove me wrong. Hell, you actually proved me *correct*.

Also, requiring you to attack through your allies is just stupid as hell. Seriously, FFXI was an absolutely horribly designed game. Stop trying to mimic it.

I'm going to sit here waiting for you to not completely fumble it when you try again. If you keep trying to have THF be based around gaining more loots, the THF you're aiming for isn't a DoW class: it's a DoL.