NINJA and ROGUE confirmed

[Grizzlebeard]

By that definition, every DPS should be tanks because damage generates enmity.

If said DPS jobs had damage avoidance/mitigation abilities such as Evasion/Parry at rank A- or two levels of Utsusemi then sure. Struggling to think of any aside from Dancer though right now, which I also used as a tank, maybe you could help out.

And perhaps you forgot that losing shadows actually make you lose enmity.

If you're trying to appear smart there you failed hard considering you lose way more Cumulative Enmity by taking Damage than you do from losing one shadow.

Cumulative Enmity Loss

Damage Taken: CE Loss = 1800 × Damage Taken ÷ Maximum HP
Taking damage while under the effect of Mana Wall : CE Loss = 180 per hit
Utsusemi Shadow Image Lost: CE Loss = 25
Being Enfeebled (Including Resists): CE Loss = 80

[Reynhart]

If said DPS jobs had damage avoidance/mitigation abilities such as Evasion/Parry at rank A- or two levels of Utsusemi then sure. Struggling to think of any aside from Dancer though right now, which I also used as a tank, maybe you could help out.

Yeah, I should have tanked on Corsair, Thief and Samurai too. Oh, and Monk for Guard. Or Puppetmaster for Evasion B with lots of Evasion Bonus.

[Grizzlebeard]

Yeah, I should have tanked on Corsair, Thief and Samurai too. Oh, and Monk for Guard. Or Puppetmaster for Evasion B with lots of Evasion Bonus.

Again, in trying to appear smart you're making yourself look a moron.

[Gilraen]

Again, in trying to appear smart you're making yourself look a moron.

I don't know, those are valid points. And yes, not only have I played XI, I'd also seen enough ninja tanks to know that I never wanted to be one. There always had to be someone ready to off-tank when their shadows were down. Always. I even tried ninja solo and... it's alot more work than when I played paladin. I have to envy AND feel sorry for people forced to tank as ninja in XI. Which is why I'm glad XIV's Ninja isn't falling into that trap.

[Reynhart]

Again, in trying to appear smart you're making yourself look a moron.

So stop claiming that Evasion or Parry is what makes a tank...
Utsusemi allowed Ninja to mitigate enough damage so that healer could heal them, /WAR allowed them to build enough enmity cause they didn't have ANY generating enmity tool by themselves when compared to other DPS.
Even DRK had more enmity generating abilities.

[Flowen_Shiva]

Grizzlebeard - NIN was never supposed to be a tank in FF11. It was created to be a versatile DD - debuffs, damage mitigation, ranged attacks. Many dd jobs have damage mitigation abilities, NIN's abilities were just exploited by players, mainly because in certain fights utsusemi was broken good but also because of the enmity in the game was nothing like FF14 - anyone could get hate on 11 were as 14 made tank skills come with large enmity boosts

[Reynhart]

If said DPS jobs had damage avoidance/mitigation abilities such as Evasion/Parry at rank A- or two levels of Utsusemi then sure. Struggling to think of any aside from Dancer though right now, which I also used as a tank, maybe you could help out.

By your explanation, MNK/NIN should have been a tank.
Enmity generating ability : Boost (Check)
Mitigation skills : B+ Evasion, A- Guard, Utsusemi from /NIN (Check)

I wonder why we haven't seen that more

[Flowen_Shiva]

By your explanation, MNK/NIN should have been a tank.
Enmity generating ability : Boost (Check)
Mitigation skills : B+ Evasion, A- Guard, Utsusemi from /NIN (Check)

I wonder why we haven't seen that more

DRK - dreadspikes, drain
MNK - guard, dodge, chakra, hp boost
SAM - seigan/third eye
THF - high evasion and perfect dodge

Could go on..

Conclusion - DD have damage mitigation/avoidance abilities doesn't mean they are designed to be a tank. And for the record, in today's ff11 MNK is used as a tank most of the time lol

[Grizzlebeard]

By your explanation, MNK/NIN should have been a tank.
Enmity generating ability : Boost (Check)
Mitigation skills : B+ Evasion, A- Guard, Utsusemi from /NIN (Check)

I wonder why we haven't seen that more

All jobs were capable of a limited ability to tank once they were able to utilise Utsusemi: Ni in addition to Ichi, however, they'd not last too long because they lacked the inherent defensive skills of Evasion/Parry at a satisfactory level in addition to having gear (unless they chose to have an evasion set) that supported that role. Ninja gear in general contained Evasion/Parry/Enmity bonuses and the later gear also added +1 shadow on Ichi and Ni casts yielding 4 and 5 shadows respectively as opposed to the 3 and 4 originally (3 for Ni if subbed by any other job).

Additionally, you're conveniently forgetting the original point of those defensive abilities have to be backed up by solid Enmity generation where Monk, Corsair, and Puppermaster fall short. I'll give you Thief because people have successfully used it to tank content such as mini-bosses in Sky with full evasion sets but it generally lacks the gear to support such a role without sacrificing it's primary DD role.

[Iriadysa]

By your explanation, MNK/NIN should have been a tank.
Enmity generating ability : Boost (Check)
Mitigation skills : B+ Evasion, A- Guard, Utsusemi from /NIN (Check)

I wonder why we haven't seen that more

All jobs were capable of a limited ability to tank once they were able to utilise Utsusemi: Ni in addition to Ichi, however, they'd not last too long because they lacked the inherent defensive skills of Evasion/Parry at a satisfactory level in addition to having gear (unless they chose to have an evasion set) that supported that role. Ninja gear in general contained Evasion/Parry/Enmity bonuses and the later gear also added +1 shadow on Ichi and Ni casts yielding 4 and 5 shadows respectively as opposed to the 3 and 4 originally (3 for Ni if subbed by any other job).

Additionally, you're conveniently forgetting the original point of those defensive abilities have to be backed up by solid Enmity generation where Monk, Corsair, and Puppermaster fall short. I'll give you Thief because people have successfully used it to tank content such as mini-bosses in Sky with full evasion sets but it generally lacks the gear to support such a role without sacrificing it's primary DD role.

Neither of you seem to have any clue of what you are talking about, so let me give you a hand here. Note that I'm talking about lv75 content before Abyssea. I left XI before it.

MNK was a tank. Did none of you ever do low man Salvage? I can't remember taking a NIN or a PLD for anything at all, it was good MNK tank all the way. You could easily make MNK tank other relevant content if the MNK knew how. Low man tier 1 jailers in Sea, Limbus, anything in sky, etc. Not only MNK was a tank, but SAM/NIN count tank just as well, if not better.

Once you had utsusemi, the only requirement for tank was enmity generation. Proof of this is that MNK tanking was done with the counter stance ability up, which droped your defense to pretty much nothing and yet it was still a fair trade because you could counter while casting utsusemi. Enmity generation for MNK and SAM was done through sheer damage, so you needed to be well geared for damage there. If for some reason enmity was a problem, a good THF would remedy this easily with Trick Attack.

On another note, RDM was an incredibly good tank (specially if you had a way to secure enmity on it), much better than a NIN.

Utsusemi and enmity became synonymous with tanking, not NIN.

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On topic:

Yay, NIN is coming relatively soon, could be fun.

THF, as designed in FFXI, is a really interesting concept. It's an enmity juggler without being a tank, which opens up a lot of alternatives when approaching content. However, due to how easy and simplified enmity is in FFXIV and the availability of skills like Provoke to rapidly switch enmity, XI's THF concept seems to be redundant for FFXIV and as such it would just end up being a reskinned NIN.

Without special mechanics to the job there's just no place for it in this game.

If it ever actually happens, I'll expect it to be a support DD/debuffer of some kind and if so, we won't see it until proper support jobs are introduced. Assuming Yoshida and Co. are still going to do that.