NINJA and ROGUE confirmed

[MartaDemireux]

Only one new class? At work so I can't watch.

Correct. Just Rogue class Ninja job coming in 2.4.

"Tank and healer are being worked on and will come with the official expansion"

[Wolf_Gang]

Correct. Just Rogue class Ninja job coming in 2.4.

"Tank and healer are being worked on and will come with the official expansion"

Are you sure Rogue doesn't turn into both THF and NIN? or that they're both jobs and the base class hasn't been revealed.
After all, we're seeing 2 sets of AF.

[Kitru]

Are you sure Rogue doesn't turn into both THF and NIN? or that they're both jobs and the base class hasn't been revealed.
After all, we're seeing 2 sets of AF.

Yoshi basically said "thieves don't work so we made them Rogues who are reformed thieves".

[MartaDemireux]

Are you sure Rogue doesn't turn into both THF and NIN? or that they're both jobs and the base class hasn't been revealed.
After all, we're seeing 2 sets of AF.

Well the Rogue's gear is actually dyed gear that already exists by the look of it. The headgear looks to be from the first dungeon but dyed green.

No one is sure that the Rogue will not turn into THF yet but they only announced Rogue > NIN so far. They did say more information on classes/jobs will be coming at Fanfest though. It is possible that we will get information on THF then.

They simply said that the Rogue's Guild was evolved from thievery. So, it's entirely possible we will get a job master to teach us in the ways of our guild's ancestors.

[Kitru]

They simply said that the Rogue's Guild was evolved from thievery. So, it's entirely possible we will get a job master to teach us in the ways of our guild's ancestors.

He said they stopped being thieves. It's not as if thievery is some kind of ancient tradecraft and basically said that it's not a heroic pursuit (not to mention pointing out that it has to fit within the story of the world). For all intents and purposes, he has said "nope, THF ain't happening".

[MartaDemireux]

He said they stopped being thieves. It's not as if thievery is some kind of ancient tradecraft and basically said that it's not a heroic pursuit (not to mention pointing out that it has to fit within the story of the world). For all intents and purposes, he has said "nope, THF ain't happening".

The base class is being called "Rogue" because "Thief" doesn't work as the name of a heroic class/job in the framework of the world. It doesn't work as a heroic class/job because it is a *petty* profession (his own words).

He did NOT call the profession petty but simply said that if you were to think of a thieves guild you would think of petty thievery. He's basically saying Rogue has a more substantial name because they're rogues not just focusing on thievery but also in poisons and stealth attacks. He also said nothing of heroism. In fact he mentioned having stealth and attacks only executable while the effect is active which is not very "heroic" at all.

Re-watching the part right now:

"It's like a thief. I mean you have the classes in FFXIV, they fit in with the story each class has their own guild and their own history. And so when we're thinking of creating a new class and a class that would have its own guild you think thieves and that's more like petty thievery and you want something a little bit more solid. So the story-wise this new rogue class - they were once thieves and they over the years have evolved into this rogue class with their own guild and they'll have their own story and background. ... But again they do have that thief history so we wanna make sure that in the lore and in the story that you have that feeling that they came up from thieves. "

This means that during the Rogue story line we will learn that they are like thieves but different. Absolutely no reason why they cannot learn old techniques through a job master that resented the change into rogues.

SE never gives away everything in one go. The PR guy won't let them.

Don't forget that new classes aren't coming until 2.4. Before then, we'll have new Live Letters, and Gamescom is in August (the month before 2.4 is due). There is plenty of time.

Just like adding Thief could be Ninja'd into the game come patch day.

Exactly! Just like back when SE told us about ACN and SMN and everyone thought that was it. Then we found out about SCH and everyone was really surprised.

[Kitru]

Exactly! Just like back when SE told us about ACN and SMN and everyone thought that was it. Then we found out about SCH and everyone was really surprised.

SCH actually makes sense to add because it's explicitly different than ACN and has a completely different role. Furthermore, the *reason* they added SCH wasn't "well, SCH is a class that has appeared often" (which is the logic you're using). The reason they added SCH was because they needed another healer so that there wasn't a single option for that role. It split off of SMN because it was something of a shortcut while providing an interesting playstyle option (healer with a healing pet).

On top of this, SCH could become a healer because SCH basically had no defined role or capability in the FF series. It was, basically, a tabula rasa that they could co-opt and turn into the healer that they needed.

THF fulfills exactly *none* of those reasons. Saying that SCH sets a precedent for THF is like saying that Newton being right about Physics means that Alchemy (which, interesting fact, he focused on a *lot* more than Physics; he's just more famous for his work on Physics) is almost certainly correct.

You're using *any* justification you can find, no matter how flimsy, to avoid having to confront the pretty simple concept that we're not getting THF. At this point, you're just proving how obtuse you're willing to get to avoid being wrong.

[MartaDemireux]

(which is the logic you're using)

You're wrong, that is not the logic I am using. The logic I am using is that because they have surprised us once before by keeping a 2nd job stemming from the same class a secret means that they could do it again this time and reveal it in a live letter just like last time or more likely at Fanfest.

THF has historically (as much as you may like to discount XI, it is still FF history) had control of enmity management (such as directly stealing 25-50% of another player's enmity to raise their own) and has been sturdier than NIN from a stat perspective in almost every title they appeared together. Yes, thematically THF has avoided battles with Flee but thievery in itself thematically draws ire. Do you like people that steal from you? Whether that is a physical item, prestige, a job, an idea etc. I'd bet that you wouldn't like it. That alone is good enough reason in my opinion for supporting a Thief tank. Having Rogue tank is also a staple niche in just about every MMO which is also missing from FFXIV.

There is also the new Hybrid role to make a future appearance which it could also fill via support as Bigpurpleharness has expressed.

[LoLo]

He said they stopped being thieves. It's not as if thievery is some kind of ancient tradecraft and basically said that it's not a heroic pursuit (not to mention pointing out that it has to fit within the story of the world). For all intents and purposes, he has said "nope, THF ain't happening".

Zidane Tribal isn't heroic?

[Bigpurpleharness]

Zidane Tribal isn't heroic?

Apparently Locke, Ruben, Zidane, and if you listen to some people, Edge and Yuffie are all not heroes. Which is news to me. (Also excluding, I, III, V, X-2, etc since the job systems are more fluid)