NINJA and ROGUE confirmed

[MartaDemireux]

Too bad we're in a FF game, and precisely in THIS FF game, DEX improves Ranged attack, Block rate and parry rate.

you can't just take any stat you like from previous FF and match it with the Dexterity...

Yet the same wiki that you quoted for STR does match them for DEX.

But again, how do you explain Shield Lob, Tomahawk and Piercing talon's damage being based on STR when their description specifically calls them Ranged Attacks? How do you explain ARC/BRD's punching auto-attack to be based on DEX?

That's the core of this argument. DEX does not increase ranged damage at all. The tool-tip says it does in the game but in actual practice it does not. DEX increases damage from Bows. If DEX increased ranged damage then Shield Lob, Tomahawk and Piercing Talon would show DPS gains from equipping DEX (they do not). If you take everything you see at face value and don't challenge it you become the dreaded White Knight. Just because the game says one thing you can't deny that it actually does another when it's proven.

In FFXIV the classes/jobs are also built around the stats because their weapons are. The tool-tips seriously need to be re-written to reflect their use.

[Reynhart]

The same way I'll explain how Shield Lob and Shield Swipe damage are based or Sword Damage, and punch are based or Bow damage, or how they're affected by slashing or piercing resistance...simplicity

Or rather...I just tried something with my Bard. I engaged a mob at the closest range I can, and guess what ? I attacked with my bow, not with my fist !
So...you tried to deny my point by false statement ?

[MartaDemireux]

The same way I'll explain how Shield Lob and Shield Swipe damage are based or Sword Damage, and punch are based or Bow damage, or how they're affected by slashing or piercing resistance...simplicity

Or rather...I just tried something with my Bard. I engaged a mob at the closest range I can, and guess what ? I attacked with my bow, not with my fist !
So...you tried to deny my point by false statement ?

Well the animation must have changed because it most certainly was a punch in 1.0 and ARR release.

All the same, DEX does not increase ranged damage. It increases the attack power for bows.

[kiraan]

And even if thief was based on DEX in the past 1000 games, it just doesn't make sense in FFXIV with how stats are defined.

Yoshida-san confirmed already in the Massively interview that we should keep the gear we already have for melee DPS if we want to have a head start with rogue/ninja.

[NolLacnala]

when they have said, no thief because of lore, because stealing is bad!

THF stands for Treasure Hunting Fellow.

[Reynhart]

Too bad nothing in this game treats attacks and ranged attacks separatly, we could have found interesting results about what is really considered a "ranged" attack.
It was a punch in 1.0 because Bard needed arrows for attacking, and they didn't want auto-attack to burn your ammunitions too quickly.

I suppose when the Musketeer-or-what's-its-name will come, we'll have another weapon weapon based on DEX.
But still, the only weapon tied to DEX is a bow, whereas all close range weapons depend on STR. And, looking at the trailer, you can't deny that Rogue has a really "close" ranged weapon.

[MartaDemireux]

Too bad nothing in this game treats attacks and ranged attacks separatly, we could have found interesting results about what is really considered a "ranged" attack.
It was a punch in 1.0 because Bard needed arrows for attacking, and they didn't want auto-attack to burn your ammunitions too quickly.

I suppose when the Musketeer-or-what's-its-name will come, we'll have another weapon weapon based on DEX.
But still, the only weapon tied to DEX is a bow, whereas all close range weapons depend on STR. And, looking at the trailer, you can't deny that Rogue has a really "close" ranged weapon.

There sort of is with the whole GLA/LNC/MRD attacks, though. They involve throwing a weapon from up to a distance of 15y (iirc). Their descriptions even call them a ranged attack. It's pretty much cut and dry that DEX just affects block/parry rates and the AP of Bows. STR affects the block/parry amount and the AP of every other weapon in the game.

It does, no doubt, have a close range. I'm not arguing that. I'm saying for the archetypal trope of a rogue or ninja class/job its the norm for it to be based on DEX. And technically, since the game really doesn't see DEX as influencing ranged attacks and just influencing attacks coming from a bow (you said yourself that Feint had comparable damage on BRD as on DRG) we could simply change the wording from "affects ranged attacks" to "increases attack power for bows." With that we could include Guns, Rapiers, and Twinblades to adhere to the norms set up by years of gaming.

Not gonna lie, I never played XI. I was kinda taking his word for it, even though I saw stuff about STR being useful for THF in XI. . .

And sorry, I didn't respond to this. In XI THF's only use for STR was to equip during your auto-attack TP building phase. Weaponskills (at least the only ones worth using) were based primarily and sometimes solely on DEX. You would have one gear set for TPing in and one gear set for WSing in. STR was only used in 2 dagger WS's and yet you'd still want to stack your WS with Sneak Attack or Trick Attack and stack on DEX or AGI respectively. WS's were the primary source of damage for physical DPS.

Did not read the full thread, but it seems people are now discussing about main charact of the ROG/NIN. Sorry if it has been said before...

http://xivdb.com/?search/!patch-Patch2.28

Look the "skill" tab. You can see some written in japanese. They are (99.9% probability) related to the ROG. There is also 3 "Dex+". So that would mean the main charact for ROG is dext.

Roughly translated for people (they are traits):

ＤＥＸアップ (Lv8) - DEX up.
-> ＤＥＸを2上昇する - Increases DEX by 2.

落下ダメージ軽減 (Lv14) - Fall damage reduction.
-> 落下による被ダメージを軽減する - Reduces the damage caused by falling.

ＤＥＸアップII (Lv16) - DEX up II.
-> ＤＥＸを4上昇する - Increases DEX by 4.

ステルス効果アップ (LV20) - Stealth effect up.
-> ステルス中の移動速度低下を軽減する - Reduces the movement speed reduction when in stealth.

ＤＥＸアップIII (Lv24) - DEX up III.
-> ＤＥＸを6上昇する - Increases DEX by 6.

移動速度アップ (Lv28) - Movement speed up.
-> 自身の移動速度を上昇させる - Increases personal movement speed.

単体特化毒Buff効果アップ (Lv32)- Single specialized poison buff effect up.
-> 単体特化毒Buff（猛毒）の与ダメージ上昇効果を20％に上昇する - Single specialized poison buff (Highly Toxic) increases physical damage by 20%.

TPリジェネ付与効果アップ (Lv36)- TP Regen effect up.
-> TPリジェネ付与によるＴＰ回復効果の効果量を上昇する。 - Grants increased effective recovery amount of TP regen.

複数特化毒Buff効果アップ (Lv40) - Multiple specialized (?) poison Buff effect up.
-> 複数特化毒Buffの与物理ダメージ上昇効果を10％に上昇する - Multiple specialized poison buff increases physical damage by 10%.

コンボB-1効果アップ (Lv44) - Combo B-1 effect up
-> コンボB-1の継続ダメージの威力を45に上昇する - Combo B-1 DoT increased to 45.

ナイフ投げPBAE効果アップ (Lv48) - Knife throwing PBAE (Player-based Area of Effect?) effect up.
-> ナイフ投げPBAEの威力を80に上昇する - Knife Throw PBAE power rises to 80.

VERY interesting on the 3 DEX+ traits. They may not be for Ninja at all as they have included Stone in the list as well but it is entirely possible as they fall at levels the Rogue would be missing traits for. Yoshi most certainly did say to hold onto melee DPS gear though which is confusing. Perhaps Rogue will use DEX afterall and Ninja will use STR.

What I'm seeing here is that Rogue (perhaps Ninja too) will have at least 2 combo chains, A and B. With the clarification of B-1 I'm assuming there is also at least a B-2 as well. This means there could be a potential branching point for Ninja and a secondary job or perhaps just for skills in general.

[EdgeFayth]

Did not read the full thread, but it seems people are now discussing about main charact of the ROG/NIN. Sorry if it has been said before...

http://xivdb.com/?search/!patch-Patch2.28

Look the "skill" tab. You can see some written in japanese. They are (99.9% probability) related to the ROG. There is also 3 "Dex+". So that would mean the main charact for ROG is dext.

[Tarushade]

Did not read the full thread, but it seems people are now discussing about main charact of the ROG/NIN. Sorry if it has been said before...

http://xivdb.com/?search/!patch-Patch2.28

Look the "skill" tab. You can see some written in japanese. They are (99.9% probability) related to the ROG. There is also 3 "Dex+". So that would mean the main charact for ROG is dext.

But they said we will use "melee" gear for Rogue, which is STR based.

[Dano]

snip.

woah good find, the skills are

reduce fall damage
stealth effect up
movement speed up
TP regen up
single target poison buff?
multiple target poison buff?
knife throwing up
combo up
and the three levels of passive DEX increases, im pretty sure this class will be using dex for damage. They share the same icon as Archer's which uses dex for damage.