NINJA and ROGUE confirmed

[MartaDemireux]

PRIMAL WEAPON

"As for the special and Primal weapons, there will be rogue and ninja versions."

The fact he made "versions" plural is what makes the world of difference. "There will be rogue and ninja versions" is an entirely different statement from "There will be a rogue and ninja version." The first means that each will get its own weapon and the second means they will get one weapon and both use it. If he meant there would just be a twinblade (they're not daggers, the JP version clarifies this with calling Rogue a "Twinblade User" or "Dual-Sword User" (take your pick)) version, he could have just said that as well, "There will be twinblade primal and special weapons." And since he said an all-around term as "Special" it makes me wonder if Rogue will get a separate relic. Or perhaps that was a hint to Rogue getting a secret second job like ACN did. Without clarification we simply don't know.

I have yet to see Mudra compared to Wrath. It sounds to me that the Mudra system will be more all-encompassing of the player's time than Wrath, though. You have to take the time and possible GCD's to input different Mudra combinations. If they use GCD's we're talking at least 2. I'm guessing the Mudra abilities will appear on a pet-bar of sorts and will not originate from the Rogue abilities as there is little reason for a Rogue to have Mudras. But time will tell. They also said that Ninja's combat pace won't be faster than other jobs which people were hoping it would be which further discounts it being similar to Wrath (using attacks to build a resource).

As for half of ACN's abilities not mattering as a SCH, I think I went through and figured out there were only like 5-7 out of what, 17? 18? that go unused the majority of the time but still have application. THF could undergo a role change as well. It could be a tank or one of the new hybrid roles coming out eventually.

You're aware that it's not tied to the job wether DEX or STR is the "main" stat ?

But it's also true that each ability has an equation. This equation can be used with DEX instead of STR if they wish. Equipping a job also raises certain stats and decimates others. Equipping SCH gives your ACN a huge boost to MND and cuts INT. Equipping SMN gives your ACN a huge boost to INT and cuts MND. If they include abilities that are based on DEX then THF could wear DEX gear. Tomahawk used to scale off of DEX because it is a ranged attack but as MRD/WAR gets no DEX on their gear they scrapped the DEX from it even though it's a ranged attack. Same goes for Shield Lob I believe. So if they make Rogue and Thief wear DEX gear they can bring back that process.

Equipping THF could give the ROG a big DEX/STR increase and NIN could give a big INT/STR increase. They did refer to the ninjutsu abilities as spells after all. Attack spells focus on INT. This way both can use the standard attacks based on STR and then their own mechanics based on DEX or INT respectively.

Ranged damage, yes, not Bards damage.

Like above, it is still somewhat associated to the skills and therefor the jobs. WAR and PLD both have ranged attacks affected by STR (not DEX which "governs" ranged attacks) so you can't even fully rely on the tool-tips in game. DEX also deals in parry and block rates as well and unproven but generally accepted to enhance evasion (many BRD's notice an increased evasion rate when compared to melee DPS). Parrying and evasion are very THF-like. They could add another reaction to a THF tanking stance such as counterattacking which THF has had in the series as well and base it on DEX.

[Reynhart]

Like above, it is still somewhat associated to the skills and therefor the jobs.

I don't recall Feint doing total crap damage when used on my Bard, even if the skill should be STR based, like you said.

[MartaDemireux]

I don't recall Feint doing total crap damage when used on my Bard, even if the skill should be STR based, like you said.

Well, test and math it out to prove it and get back to me with your findings

Cross-class attacks may have their own equations to use whatever stat your weapon uses to calculate damage. Physical attack abilities as a whole may just use Attack Power now. If that's the case then STR and DEX will affect it based on the weapon you use which means your original assessment of your job not determining your main stat is flawed. Your job is based on your class and your class is defined by the weapon it uses which is then classified by if it's a STR or a DEX weapon. DoM are exceptions to this rule (as their weapons are STR based) and are solely classified by which magic type (attack/INT or healing/MND) their skills are using which then further supports the job demanding what stats you use. If an ability uses attack power it will use whatever stat that weapon type uses to increase attack power. A CNJ using Mercy Stroke should see a much lower damage rating due to their AP being related to STR which they have little of (assuming physical attack skills only use AP).

Supporting abilities or non-damaging mechanics could still use DEX as a base and Thief's variant of twinblades could stack on the DEX while Ninja's variant could stack on the INT for their ninjutsu (classified as spells which is intriguing).

On that note, it'd be interesting to see how ninjutsu is calculated. If they use Attack Power then they'll be using STR. If they use Attack Magic Potency then they'll be using INT. Seeing as NIN is said to be using STR gear its AMP will be low which would make the Ninjutsu pretty low. If they use STR/AP and still call them spells then it goes against in-game properties just like WAR/PLD's ranged attacks which will be irksome. They also have stated that Ninjutsu will be used to enhance the player or enfeeble the enemy and didn't mention a damage mechanic associated to them so who knows at this point.

[Arkista]

I don't recall Feint doing total crap damage when used on my Bard, even if the skill should be STR based, like you said.

Talking about FFXI? I haven't played for over a year now, But when did they let other jobs use Merit Abilities? Unless you meant THF and not BRD.

[Reynhart]

Talking about FFXI? I haven't played for over a year now, But when did they let other jobs use Merit Abilities? Unless you meant THF and not BRD.

No, I'm talking about a Lancer skill cross-classed on my BRD that still do damage based on DEX, since I'm equipped with a bow.

[Reynhart]

They could easily put in that dex is the stat that increases attack power while dual wielding blades, they did it so that dex increased ranged damage

Ranged damage, yes, not Bards damage. Dual wielding blades are still close range, like Monks.
It's not Diablo 3 where each class has an arbitrary stat.

Each stats has several increases and none of them are linked to a job. If a WHM wants to block more damage, he needs STR like everyone else.

[Mcshiggs]

Ranged damage, yes, not Bards damage. Dual wielding blades are still close range, like Monks.
It's not Diablo 3 where each class has an arbitrary stat.

Each stats has several increases and none of them are linked to a job. If a WHM wants to block more damage, he needs STR like everyone else.

When it comes to stats and which ones increases what types of damage, they can do whatever they want, because it is their game, and dual blades will be a different weapon class. They don't have progammed in melee damage is calculated by str by weapon damage by whatever else, they do it by weapon class. Have you noticed when you are on bard and you are in melee damage you punch the enemy, guess what dex raises that so it is that dex raises bard damage and not just their ranged attacks.

[Reynhart]

So I suppose STR will be described as "Increase Attack Power (But not for Rogue and Ninja)" and DEX, "Increase ranged attack power, but also attack power for Rogue and Ninja" ?

I don't understand...what's so special about Rogue and Ninja it that people suddenly imagine exceptions here and there ?!

[MartaDemireux]

So I suppose STR will be described as "Increase Attack Power (But not for Rogue and Ninja)" and DEX, "Increase ranged attack power, but also attack power for Rogue and Ninja" ?

I don't understand...what's so special about Rogue and Ninja it that people suddenly imagine exceptions here and there ?!

I never said that. I said specifically that DEX could be used in Thief/Rogue's non-damaging mechanics (although now I'm thinking it could be used in some damaging ones as well). Essentially the same way in that THM/BLM/CNJ/WHM/ACN/SMN/SCH weapons use the STR path but they use INT/MND for their skills/mechanics.

They should re-define the two terms though to something along the lines of:

STR: Increases attack power for Swords/Shields/Axes/Fisticuffs/Polearms/Rods/Staves/Books/Twinblades and block/parry strength.
DEX: Increases attack power for Bows and block/parry rates. (potentially evasion too)

Since there are in-game skills which specify that they deliver a ranged attack but use STR due to that being their weapons stat (Tomahawk, Shield Lob, Piercing Talon) I find it inappropriate to define DEX as being a ranged attack modifier. This way they could even put Twinblades on the DEX path instead of the STR. It'd make more sense thematically.

[Reynhart]

They use INT for magic damage and MND for healing because they're magical DPS and healer.

How would a close range DPS not focus on STR since there's a big chance that all his weapon skills damage will improve from it ?!
The main purpose of a DPS is damage, and you want to focus on "non-damaging mechanics" ? I don't understand, sorry.