The Cutscene Skipping Debate - Change of View

[Velo_Vandore]

This debate comes up over and over and over, on the forums, so I'm sorry to post another thread on the topic, however I hope it to server another purpose than to simply rant. I used to get very frustrated when I couldn't enjoy my first run of a duty at my own pace, watching cutscenes, exploring all areas, etc. After reading hundreds of opposing opinions on the topic openly, my opinions have changed and I've come to peace with the current situation. I hope other's who have felt as I did will be able to read this and come to peace with the situation too.

We all have options. The player that wants to watch scenes is never forced to watch them. They can sit back (and likely miss every boss encounter because the other players have the option to continue without that player), or they can leave the group (if not kicked) and re-queue or try to preform a story run group.

Since the new patch (2.28), we can get party finder notifications for our specific search options. I set it to notify me specifically of groups with "newcomers welcome", "slow and easy", "no cutscene skipping". Hopefully others are doing the same who don't like to see new players rushed. I'd strongly encourage using the party finder for first runs, but be prepared to wait a long, long time.

Look at it this way - if the roulette bonus was removed from the story mode dungeons you would simply be waiting a very long time anyway. You have two choices - group up right now, but accept that the group may not want the same thing from the run as you. Wait hours / days / weeks for your first run, but enjoy it as you would like to. This IS fair. People can play however they like, even if it's selfish in our eyes, people have the right to be selfish. Remember!! If the duty roulette did not exist, you would be waiting hours / days / weeks for a Castrum / Praetorium group anyway - just like other, older MMO's.

I used to get angry at roulette farmers for ruining my first time run, but then I realized there was some irony going on - I would struggle and fail to get the story run group together with my own "friends" in my Free Company / Linkshell's. I wouldn't call those players selfish for not helping me yet I would consider the random group of players selfish for not helping me... We won't bother our FC / LS friends to stop what they are doing and help us, then call them selfish and complain about them on the forum when they say they can't right now, but we will join a random group and expect the help from those players.

Realize that duty roulette is not simply designed for new players to have a nice / supportive first run (nor should it be in my opinion). There's a much more important purpose to the roulette - to allow players to simply group up and clear content. No matter how much you want each new player to have a nice first run with scenes - be realistic. If the scenes were forced or the roulette bonus removed the dungeon would be completely barren overnight. Then not only can the new player not get their story run, they can't get a run at all.

The player still has the option to pre-form a story run group, just as though the duty finder / roulette never existed. Why do you suppose the party finder option "Story focused - no cutscene skipping" exists? Why does auto translate text exist for "Looking for group" etc? The option to get a story run right now (i.e. less than 20 mins) does NOT exist, but then it never did in any MMO ever unless you are lucky enough to play with an active group of close friends / helpful people. Some have the misconception that duty finder ruins MMO's and makes players less patient, but in fact nothing changed except that we have the option now to get a group FAST if we're willing to rush through.

Please tell me the game / time, when you could get a random group, at the drop of a hat, in less than 20minutes, for any dungeon that would politely support you despite inexperience and wait for you during long cutscenes. If it's exists I'll switch to that game in a heartbeat. No, there is either a massive wait for the group (and still a chance the run will turn ugly), or you happen to have a nice close knit group of established friends to support you, or there's a mechanism in the game to group you fast (like bonus for high level players to repeat) but things are speed-run 90% of the time. Nothing has changed.

Don't get me wrong, I think the good Samaritan players out there are awesome! I encourage helpfulness, patience and consideration to newer players and try to adopt the same attitude myself. However, I now respect that it's not an attitude you can expect of or force from people, and to try to force people to slow down and wait by insulting them / calling them selfish etc, is unfair and should actually be considered harassment. It's us players going into duty finder groups and pressuring others to slow down that are in the wrong. There's nothing wrong with queueing and hoping for a considerate group / story run. If we don't get that group, then I'd even say it's fine to leave, eat the penalty and re-queue (though pre-forming if you can is better), but being rude to people for farming their myth is just out of order.

Let's not forget also that some players want to skip scene's and clear ASAP even if it is their first run. Duty finder is great for them and it would be a shame if they were made to wait longer for their group due to the bonuses being removed or the cutscenes becoming un-skipable.

One final point @ the developers, because I think things can still get better!

I love to be helpful! Lot's of players do (or at least claim to :P) so I'd say to the developers, keep improving on the tools like party finder, and give us needing support / offering support more ways to find each other. Unfortunately party finder is still underused by casual, new players, and I'd offer the following suggestions:

1. Since the 2.28 patch it's awesome that I can recieve notifications based on my search criteria, but this wasn't immediately apparent to me. Could an active help window highlight this?
2. Could my party finder search criteria be persistent even after I log out and back in.
3. Could there be an option to play a sound when there are party finder groups matching my criteria.
4. Could the party finder notification message in the chat log have it's own colour setting so I can make it stand out more.
5. Could the duy finder menu indicate next to each dungeon which has a party finder group recruiting. This will encourage people to check first if there's a group matching their uniques preferences, rather than taking a chance on DF and possibly running into a clash of interests.
6. Can we get an improved mentor system? The commendations are good, and part way towards encouraging players to help each other, but commendations are very broad, rather than support focus and can be awarded for anything from, good humour, skilled playing, even pity or random selection or just based on someones favored classes / whims.
   
   I think a good idea would be to allow players to specifically ask for a mentor (possibly an option in party finder, or even duty finder), then players can join either also as looking for help, or as a mentor (of course there must be at least one mentor, and one looking for help). At the end of that run the players who were looking for help will be asked to select if each mentor was helpful and supportive or not. If they pick yes, the mentor gets a mentor point. In the players examine window the points are displayed to give them the satisfaction of recognition and also a healthy competitive element to encourage people to help each other more. Of course bonuses (vanity / status based) could be awarded at set milestones. To avoid players cheating this, they should not be able to ask for mentors after they have completed the duty once as that class.
7. Can the party finder be made cross server somehow?

[Tule]

None of this is a new perspective. You want to do things at your own pace? Use the party finder, because there are TONS of myth farmers. Hardly any story players. You want an easy 100 tomes? Well then you have to accept that other players may not want the same thing as you. You can group up quick, or PF even quicker, but don't ruin newbie's experience if you want the game to survive. The game tells new players to use duty finder because they may not have friends, and the main story is completed quickly so it would be hard to party finder it. You can say both sides are selfish, but can you honestly say both sides have the same resources to fall back on? That's a joke.

Name any game? PSU/PSO/DCUO, pretty much all console MMO's will support inexperience. You still have elitist, but there are easy groups to get into as well. So I guess, see you later. Have fun with Weapon Mastery.

[Velo_Vandore]

You want an easy 100 tomes? Well then you have to accept that other players may not want the same thing as you. You can group up quick, or PF even quicker, but don't ruin newbie's experience if you want the game to survive. The game tells new players to use duty finder because they may not have friends, and the main story is completed quickly so it would be hard to party finder it.

Thanks for the reply Tule. Firstly I'll just say I meant it's a new perspective for me, and could be for others that had the same thinking as me before. The fact is that players will do what they want. Whether it's selfish or not is purely opinion that's been debated over and over, and despite how strongly I or you may feel either way, there's no absolute right and wrong opinion on this. Instead of just being annoyed at society in general for not being more supportive to each other, I'm saying let's deal with facts. If the game removed the bonus tomes or forced cutscenes in Prae and CM would everyone suddenly be getting helpful groups or would they just be queue-ing forever for any group at all? Would there be any advantage? At least as things are we can get a group at all, and I've decided to take comfort i that instead of continuing to feel negative about the situation and other players (who owe me nothing really).

You can say both sides are selfish, but can you honestly say both sides have the same resources to fall back on? That's a joke.

No, I never meant to say that. It's much harder to get a group for a story run than it is to get a myth farming group. I think people should be respectful to others who choose to queue on duty finder hoping for a story run, but shouldn't be FORCED to help the new player. It's great if they do, but if they decide not to I respect that (even though i'd encorage otherwise). I think things like vote abandon, leave, and even vote kick can be used respectfully if there are clashing interests. It doesn't always have to be done after a row, just a simple "sorry, I think most here are myth farming, good luck with your next group" - vote kick.

Name any game? PSU/PSO/DCUO, pretty much all console MMO's will support inexperience. You still have elitist, but there are easy groups to get into as well. So I guess, see you later. Have fun with Weapon Mastery.

I'm still skeptical :P Are you sayoing in these games I can get a group easily for any group content in under 20 minutes and be free to watch scenes, explore and play at my own pace without being kicked or harassed? If so, please explain how you feel these games achieve that environment / community and whether you think FFXIV could achieve the same?

[Tule]

Snip

I am facing facts. And the fact of the matter is that even if you say both sides are selfish, one side is clearly in a better standing with the rest of the game and content. To try and punish them and force them onto an even smaller portion of the game is wrong. You can justify it all you want, but it is justification. I "force" speed runs from time to time, or I'll leave if the players or bad. But I know I'm being selfish. I try not to do it all the time. But if I did, oh well. At least I know, at least I'm not pretending like I'm not. And that is what is bothering me. The fact also is CM/Prae have always given tomes that end game players need/want, and even if it wasn't a lot people would still do it because its easy. So it isn't completely the roulette.


As far as PSU/PSO/DCUO. PSU is gone, but think you can probably still play the PSP version. DCUO, yes, you can do much of what you want, if you try to find a party. There are tons of kids and casual players. The game achieves this by being EXTREMELY casual. Its why I don't play it anymore. I'm casual, but that game takes it to a whole new level. Kind of like.. well.. CM and Prae. You can speed run it with a group of 4 and let the other 4 watch cutscenes, but instead people will kick newbies and probably never get a rep.

But all you said is you wanted quick dungeons. So have fun in DCUO.

[Velo_Vandore]

snip

I think you're missing my point or I didn't make it clear, but I'm not just looking for quick dungeons. Ideally I would like to be able to have a short queue for a dungeon and still be able to enjoy the cutscenes, participate in all battles, and be supported by other players rather than rushed. The whole point of my thread however is not to say I'm NOT annoyed at people that this isn't possible, but instead that I have accepted that it isn't because people have different goals. Also that people farming content on roulette runs does still serve a useful purpose to the new player should he fail to get his preferred slow / story run type of group by other means.

While I like to enjoy my first run without rushing, I do like a challenge so I imagine the balance FFXIV has achieved is probably closer to my preference than the other games you're describing.

Edited: forgot the highlighted word above. Kinda important one XD

[Tule]

Snip

Well if you want quick ques that let you watch the cutscenes and you aren't rushed then DCUO is for you. Have fun.

[Velo_Vandore]

Thank you Razzle.

I have to admit I also lacked that common sense for some time.

Ignorance is bliss and it's all too easy to point the finger. It's harder to accept not getting your way, and to understand different objectives to your own. I too love to wait and support new players, and will always wait days / weeks if needed to get a group I can enjoy my own first run with, but I try to be more understanding now of people choosing to "speed-run" roulettes. Players who maybe are interested in getting down top tier content like turn 9 with friends before it's nerfed and only have a few hours each night to play. I can understand why they don't want to spend 2 hours for a roulette. I'll never excuse rudeness though from either side though. I'll admit I've been aggresive once or twice in Praetorium when players lock out the new guy who's still in the scene. I sat and refused to fight and called the others selfish. I'm not so proud of that anymore and wish I'd handled it differently.

[Razzle]

Name any game? PSU/PSO/DCUO, pretty much all console MMO's will support inexperience.

Didn't play DCUO, but PSU/PSO? loool... Those games are built around duty finder and is filled with speed running... Yet players there don't care... I don't even think you can compare the two to FFXIV because the cutscenes there belong to solo story missions.

At the end of the day its just poor game design with those story raids but that's a different thread.

What you don't realize - Is that players just won't wait for cutscenes. Ever. Make them skiappble, they will skip. Make them forced - they will just won't run that dungeon.

The result is the same for you, so might as well make it skipable and give the newbies an option to run it fast than force it and take out that option from them.

[Tule]

Snip.

Cutscenes aren't skippable in DCUO. All the big dungeons have them.

PSU/PSO weren't stellar games. Doesn't change the fact you could ALWAYS find a White Beast party. Someone would say "Have at least 40% dark" or something like that, but there were plenty of idiots running around with light on light slicers, and still beating the dungeon. Cause it was easy. I didn't say they were great or challenging games. I just gave him what he wanted, he acted like it didn't exist.

[Razzle]

but there were plenty of idiots running around with light on light slicers, and still beating the dungeon. Cause it was easy. I didn't say they were great or challenging games. I just gave him what he wanted, he acted like it didn't exist.

I still don't understand how PSU and PSO are the answer. They don't have cutscenes at all. As for DCUO, if the cutscenes there are as long and as many as FFXIV's, I bet they're not so popular. So again, the newbie rather be able to run a popular dungeon fast than to not run it all.