My idea (or rehash) of a new healer role: Chemist>Red Mage

[DawgPilez]

(Edit: Increasing obvious that people wouldn't be behind this as RDM. So, I'm going to go with Machinist)

New Class 2: The Chemist (healer)

Yup the chemist from Tactics. I saw a post about this on a different gaming outlet and thought idea would be cool. Basically the chemist focused on single target cures, buffs, and debuffs. The chemist can cure any status, can heal mp, and can cast the "potion of X (de)buff" on a player or target. For authenticity sake, the chemist is required to have the potion they want to use to cast for a skill (skills require the potion). There can, however, be new potions types such as "panacea" and maybe more that serve the function of being a dummy potion that can be used by the skill.
However, the additional effect of casting a skill with the real potion can be a more potent effect (giving players and incentive to use the real thing). Phoenix downs would need to be put in the game and are chemist usable only. Would let chemist rez the fastest in the game (but the rez won't restore much hp). Chemist use guns (rifle) which supplement their "throwing" of potions at teammates/enemies. They will be a ranged support (healer).


New Job 2 Machinist (CHM/don't know what other would go with it): Functions similarly to the chemist but gains the ability to cast supportive potions on the entire party at a reduced affect as well as the same for debuffs (at some point... or in typical FFXIV fashion, just gets the +II version). Gains an ability to dose their gun with potion to fire debuffing rounds (magical rounds).

Stat focus for both: Dex/Int or Piety. All skills for the CHM/MCH cost mp. Int will increase magical bullet dmg (unless it was collectively agreed that no one would want a gun to fire magical dmg-in which case, INT wouldn't be necessary). Dex is for the normal bullet ACC and dmg similar to ARH. Not sure if they will wear caster armor or and medium DoW armor. Probably whatever the BRD wears.

I think CHM/MCH would fit nicely in the dmg. This healer role isn't about DoTs or the occasional AoE nuke. They can be more supportive in the buffs they use, and due to the speedy nature of their "throw" abilities and no requirement to enter a stance, they can put out steady dmg and debuff. I haven't played all of the class/jobs yet, but I feel there is room for a class of this nature.

What do you guys think?

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

Well, there's generally two issues with this line of thought:
First would be that a chemist would be physical and "item reliant". With Item reliant I wouldn't been being bound to healing supplies, but rather than their healing comes in forms of items - Potion Pitching if you want to call it. Red Mage, on the other hand, is magic reliant, as the name implies, and to an extend physical based. The class concept of Red Mage and Chemist would clash and create a class that would be magic based as well as physics based (pharmacy).
Secondly would be the the weapon affinity of the classes according to the design patterns. Common weapons for chemists (or alchemists) in the Final Fantasy series would be a gun, mace or dagger. Red Mages, on the other hand would have affinity towards fencing swords, such as rapiers, sabers and degens. They also have some affinity towards daggers. While they have a common weapon affinity, the rogue class already claims the dagger weapon in Final Fantasy XIV. As long the armory system stands, no other class can use daggers unless Square-Enix introduces a seperate category for daggers, like how they did that with the initial daggers for Gladiators.

In other topics, the possibility that gunners will become chemists later has been discussed. I don't think this will happen personally, but that's for another discussion :P

[DawgPilez]

First would be that a chemist would be physical and "item reliant". With Item reliant I wouldn't been being bound to healing supplies, but rather than their healing comes in forms of items - Potion Pitching if you want to call it. Red Mage, on the other hand, is magic reliant, as the name implies, and to an extend physical based. The class concept of Red Mage and Chemist would clash and create a class that would be magic based as well as physics based (pharmacy).

cough cough FFseries characters tend to use both magic and physical attacks including the BLU mage, DRK in FFXI, palidan... cough cough

Plus, I did say the RDM can get access to magic bullets, which if people are truly hung up on RDM having bullets... or the job named RDM that isn't focused on magic, then we can simply change the name. Btw, it's called "throw" in FF speek. Characters that "toss" items at others have the skills "throw". Ninjas tend to sport the skill.

Secondly would be the the weapon affinity of the classes according to the design patterns. Common weapons for chemists (or alchemists) in the Final Fantasy series would be a gun, mace or dagger. Red Mages, on the other hand would have affinity towards fencing swords, such as rapiers, sabers and degens. They also have some affinity towards daggers. While they have a common weapon affinity, the rogue class already claims the dagger weapon in Final Fantasy XIV. As long the armory system stands, no other class can use daggers unless Square-Enix introduces a seperate category for daggers, like how they did that with the initial daggers for Gladiators.

Doesn't mean SE can't mix it up (Bards using bows.... thieves dual wielding innately... all class using only one weapon type). Sounds like you are hung up on the lore of Red Mage, which I suppose is fine, but that's not to say RDM couldn't be evolved. I'm sure if I called the job: Physicists, you wouldn't have any concerns.

Who knows, maybe the CHM/RDM could use the Rapier/gun combo. Talk about sweet and piratey. ARRRRRRRRRRRRGH!

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

cough cough FFseries characters tend to use both magic and physical attacks including the BLU mage, DRK in FFXI, palidan... cough cough

Plus, I did say the RDM can get access to magic bullets, which if people are truly hung up on RDM having bullets... or the job named RDM that isn't focused on magic, then we can simply change the name. Btw, it's called "throw" in FF speek. Characters that "toss" items at others have the skills "throw". Ninjas tend to sport the skill.

For starters, you're not reading what I typed about how Chemist and Red Mage would clash. Secondly, if they'd have magic bullets, they'd be classified as Corsair or Gun Mage, rather than Red Mage. Red Mage wouldn't be Red Mage either without it's magic. A class that would be remotely similar to Red mage, but not as magic oriented, would be (Rune) Fencer.

Doesn't mean SE can't mix it up (Bards using bows.... thieves dual wielding innately... all class using only one weapon type). Sounds like you are hung up on the lore of Red Mage, which I suppose is fine, but that's not to say RDM couldn't be evolved. I'm sure if I called the job: Physicists, you wouldn't have any concerns.

Who knows, maybe the CHM/RDM could use the Rapier/gun combo. Talk about sweet and piratey. ARRRRRRRRRRRRGH!

Rapier/gun combo would lean more towards a corsair, which in this case magic bullets would make sense

[VanilleFang]

snip

There is a difference between being both a Physical and Magical based job, and being a Physical based job turning into a Magical Job.

Bards using bows isn't something completely new (Edward can use a bow). Thieves using two knives innately is barely a change from the FF lore, considering that there is no "Dual-Wielding" trait, thus they have two daggers. And All classes using one weapon type isn't that much of a change from previous FF's, most characters only use one weapon type in most FFs, most classes only really want to use one weapon type by the end, and in Tactics most Jobs can only use one weapon type.

Also "Throw" is throwing offensive tems (shurikens) and Weapons, not potions. So no, this isn't the same as the "Throw" Skill.

You are suggesting something completely out of no where, and barely anyone would enjoy this rendition of a "Red Mage". Red Mages are Sword-Mages that use Black and White Magic. They always do this. Always. They aren't going to change that.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

You are suggesting something completely out of no where, and barely anyone would enjoy this rendition of a "Red Mage". Red Mages are Sword-Mages that use Black and White Magic. They always do this. Always. They aren't going to change that.

Well I hope not at least! Melee (supportive) healer would be a really interesting concept

[VanilleFang]

Well I hope not at least! Melee (supportive) healer would be a really interesting concept

Yeah. I agree. It's just that a Red Mage is like Black and White Mages. They have a certain formula to them. I would love a melee healer, and a Red Mage would be an interesting take on it, I just don't know how they would be able to call it a Red Mage if it didn't have access to a wide variety of offensive abilities as well. That's only my thoughts on it though.

Thought, again, FFXIV isn't really sticking to the strict formulas of the past. Take White Mage for example. Aero and Stone? That's completely out of character for them. So I wouldn't really be against a Red Mage being supportive, I suppose, it would just seem really weird I guess.

[Pots_Talos]

While I love the idea of a chemist, I can't get behind the job being Redmage. If anything I would think maybe Machinist like Mustadio from FFT would be a good Job class upgrade.

[DawgPilez]

While I love the idea of a chemist, I can't get behind the job being Redmage. If anything I would think maybe Machinist like Mustadio from FFT would be a good Job class upgrade.

That's a better name for it. I hope SE makes it RDM just to shake everyone's boots up. But I doubt RDM would happen as I've proposed. CHM seems like a cool idea. It's something haven't seen in an mmo (though pot spamming has existed since the dawn of time).

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

They're still technically two different kind of throws, though. One is a chemist version that only allows you to throw supportive items. While the Ninja's version only allows them to throw weapons (equipables included). It's even named differently: "Throw Items" and "Throw".

And there's still a clash among those two classes:
Chemist's healing come in form of potions. This may or may not limit them to healing, but to buffing or debuffing as well - Silencing potions for example.
Red Mage's healing, buffing and debuffing both come from the form magic. As opposed to the chemist's "physical" variant (physical as in, touchable)

If a chemist would to branch out into a Red Mage, this would mean the following:
A part what would identify a Chemist as "Chemist" is to be replaced or isn't there in the first place.
A part what would identify a Red Mage as "Red Mage" is to be replaced or isn't there in the first place.

You could propose that a red mage's healing come in form of potions. But in this case, a Red mage is not a red mage because it lost a part of it's white magic identity.
You could also propose that a red mage's healing come in form of potions AND have buffing spells, which could be considered white magic. But then chemist's lose a bit of their identity as they're healing through potions, but curing ailments through magic.
Or perhaps a chemist that has debuffing ability? Why don't they have a concoction for that in the first place?
A Red Mage that throws potion? That doesn't quite identify it as a "mage" either. A Red Mage with simply sword enhancing spells would identify as a Rune Knight or Rune Fencer, not a Red Mage.

There are simply too many conflicts and holes in the Chemist -> Red Mage line of thought, regardless of how SE will "evolve" the classes for this game. The very nature of both classes/jobs are the polar opposites: You could say it's science vs faith! It's more likely that a Musketeer will become a Chemist later - Which has been discussed in various topics before. In this case, I hope the Musketeer class will become a corsair, rather than chemist.