MNK Sphirai Novus's stats choices

[KaosPrimeZero]

Greetings fellow MNK's

I was wondering what secondary stats your all aiming for upgrading when upgraidng to your Novus weapon.


Untill yesterday , like many, i was aiming to a 31 DET/44 CRIT build, but then i saw this img (in the DRG equivalent thread) and it got me thinking:
http://i.imgur.com/AC8f5uY.jpg

With 3 stats being melded, would it still be better to go 31 DET/44 CRIT or something more balanced like 31 DET/ 23 CRIT / 21 ACC be good? I know some are already ACC capped but thinking forward isnt such a bad idea either and a bit of ACC on the weapon never hurts anyone?

Thoughts please

[Donjo]

I've stated this less precisely in another thread, but I wouldn't count your Determination chickens just yet. We now have the precise knowledge that an i110 weapon has 75 "points" of secondary stats attached to it.

Examples:

Rosenbogen: 31 Crit + 44 SkS = 75
Leavateinn: 44 Acc + 31 SpS = 75
Conquerer: 44 Acc + 31 Crit = 75

However, some weapons do not have 75 points in stats:

Glanzfaust: 44 Acc + 22 Det = 66
Book of Spades: 31 Crit + 31 Det = 62
Burtgang + Noct Shield: 22 Acc + 13 Acc + 22 Det + 9 Parry = 66

These three weapons have less than 75 points, and the one thing they all have in common is that Determination is one of their stats. We've known for quite some time that Determination is weighted more on gear than other stats. Therefore, it would appear to be the case that despite all appearances, Determination is probably counting as slightly more than one "point" out of your 75 every time you meld it. Weapons with 44 in one stat have 22 in Determination. Weapons with 31 Determination have 31 in another stat.

Using the Glanzfaust and the Book of Spades as examples, it would appear that each point of Determination accounts for approximately 1.41-1.42 points each out of our 75.

The Math:

Glanzfaust: 75 total - 44 Acc = 31 points left. 31 points / 22 Det = 1.409
Book of Spades: 75 total - 31 Crit = 44 points left. 44 points / 31 Det = 1.419

Therefore! It is my theory that if you meld 31 "points" of Determination into a piece of gear, it will give you an actual value of 22 in the end. If you meld 44(if any weapons even let you...), you will get 31.

If you want to think about other values of Determination, you can probably get a pretty accurate representation of actual values by dividing (Determination Points) / 1.41 and rounding to the nearest whole number. It's not terribly precise, but it's likely close enough for our purposes.

In conclusion, I don't think that Determination numbers are what they appear to be. We might get lower numbers at the moment of the upgrade, but it wouldn't be fair to people who didn't choose Determination if Determination choosers didn't have to meld 75 points too.

[Lorie]

Going with the balanced stats 31 DET/ 23 CRIT/ 21 ACC.

[whiskeybravo]

snip

This is probably wrong.. Can't say for sure until someone melds more than +31 crit to there scroll. If this is treated like crafted gear (since we are dealing with materia) it will be entirely possible to cap both stats. The only way to know if this is (or is not) the case will require someone melding more than +31 crit (or acc or sksp) and see if it lowers the amount of Det you can affix. For right now it says 0/31 Det.

[Kanti]

Thinking I'll pump in around ~30 acc then as much det as I can, fill the rest with crit.

[Donjo]

This is probably wrong.. Can't say for sure until someone melds more than +31 crit to there scroll. If this is treated like crafted gear (since we are dealing with materia) it will be entirely possible to cap both stats. The only way to know if this is (or is not) the case will require someone melding more than +31 crit (or acc or sksp) and see if it lowers the amount of Det you can affix. For right now it says 0/31 Det.

I wasn't talking about the number of Det materia you can infuse into the scroll. The point I was making is that the number will say 31. You'll meld 31 materia into it. After that, I think you might end up with 22 Determination in the final weapon. Because 31 points of Determination is weighted down to 22 in all equivalent gear(31 / 1.41 = 21.98 -> 22).

Additionally, the greater weight of Determination is shown outside of weapons as well. If an i90 piece fits 34 of one stat, it'll fit only 24 Determination(34 / 1.41 = 24.1 -> 24). 21 of another, 15 Determination(21 / 1.41 = 14.89 -> 15). Materia in crafted gear never lets you have an amount of Determination equal to a capped amount of Acc, Crit, or Speed. It, in fact, falls in line with my proposed weight for the stat.

You're right in saying we can't know for sure where Determination will end up until someone gets that far, but it would be incredibly strange if the Novus had more weight in Secondary Stats than an equivalent i110 weapon of its tier... but only if Determination is on the weapon.

[whiskeybravo]

You're right in saying we can't know for sure where Determination will end up until someone gets that far, but it would be incredibly strange if the Novus had more weight in Secondary Stats than an equivalent i110 weapon of its tier... but only if Determination is on the weapon.

It is incredibly strange that some crafted i90 fully melded outweighs it's Soldiery/HA equivalent, isn't it?

In theory, what you are saying is correct. For right now though, it appears 1 materia = 1 attribute point, regardless of tier. Why would it only start to decrease Determination but not any other stat? (I read what you are saying 1 det materia = .7 attribute, instead of 1:1 ratio on other materia)

[Donjo]

It is incredibly strange that some crafted i90 fully melded outweighs it's Soldiery/HA equivalent, isn't it?

In theory, what you are saying is correct. For right now though, it appears 1 materia = 1 attribute point, regardless of tier. Why would it only start to decrease Determination but not any other stat? (I read what you are saying 1 det materia = .7 attribute, instead of 1:1 ratio on other materia)

To answer your first question, I don't believe that is a valid comparison. Just because materia is part of the Novus process doesn't mean that it can be compared to crafted gear. The scrolls let us choose our 75 points of weight for ourselves. That's all. We get 75 points. Precisely equal to other i110 weapons. If we were actually allowed to have 44 Something and 31 Det on a weapon, for example, that breaks tier equality unless people who don't have Determination are allowed to add more of the lesser weighted stats as well. This is proven false by the patch note example of a Gae Bolg with 44 Crit and 31 Skill Speed, which adds up to 75.

As I stated before, Determination is well known to be weighted differently than other stats. If we assume that I'm correct and that Determination will lower at the moment of the Novus upgrade, than the reason we still had to, say, meld 31 materia to get 22 determination is simply fairness. Everyone has to get 75 Alexandrite and meld 75 materia to their scroll. Everyone. It doesn't matter what stats we choose. It's simply unfair if some people get their Novus 10 days quicker by choosing a stat that has a higher weight.

For reference, the stats that have higher weights as secondaries are Determination and Piety. I think all the others are 1:1. Determination appears to be weighted at about 1.41 per point and Piety appears to be weighted at about 1.34 per point. Give or take. Of course, the math will probably get weird if one chooses Determination and Piety for the Novus.

[whiskeybravo]

snip

Well.. We will just have to agree to disagree for right now. Once more people have progressed with melds we will see what happens with Det. Either nothing will happen and you can cap both, or it will decrease the # you can meld. (from 0/31 down to 0/22 depending on other melds.. Or if you choose Det first, bring other stats down from 0/44 to 0/31, etc.. This to me makes more sense then weird attribute ratios)