Is DRG too weak? does it need a buff?

[beowulf81]

My main is a DRG, love the job. i'd like to think i don't suck at it. But there's a lot about it that makes me think its actually one of the weaker classes, and needs a significant buff.
The optimal rotation is incredibly complex - thats not a bad thing, in fact its one reason i like dragoon so much. but the loss of dps if you miss one of the positionals (heavy thrust, impulse drive) is huge. the other melee dps in my static is a monk, and if a monk messes up they don't lose anywhere near as much dps (my experience - correct me if i'm wrong).

even if you master that complex rotation, you hit your positionals perfectly and maximise your dps - that optimal dps still falls short of that of a monk. it can be very noticeable, especially in the longer fights. You can hit your rotation perfectly and still put out noticeably less dps then a monk who trips over his rotation a few times.

continued...

[beowulf81]

Add to that the fact that dragoons have the worst magic defence in the game. Add that to the fact that they have less utility than the monk.

Dragoons seem to be intended to be glass cannons - they can't take a hit, but they are supposed to put out incredible damage. which is fine, except their damage is eclipsed by jobs that are not as vulnerable as they are and add more to the group. All they bring is damage - so why isn't that damage greater, given the complexity of their optimal rotation?

If they are supposed to be glass cannons, i would say buff their damage and have them put out the most dps. they have a 27 move rotation, for Pete's sake. What is the point in mastering that, in playing a class that is so much more vulnerable and brings relatively little to the rest of the group apart from dps, when other classes give better dps?

[Nicobo]

...especially in the longer fights ....

TBH I don't know why my MNK will run out of TP after 4mins of normal rotation.... ^^;
Someone told me I need -skillspeed...

[Nicobo]

...Add that to the fact that they have less utility than the monk...

But MNK no decent AoE.... ^^;

[Lemon8or]

1. Dragoon has a much much easier time against monk where there are disconnect. Primals are prime example of this.
2. Your experience is not wrong. However comparing a job where there are many spots that they can mess up positional to a job where you only have 2 skills to hit positional, the one with more positional should have less penalty per error. Is that wrong? A dragoon and a monk that cannot do their job effectively will be bottom of the barrel easily. Monks do not have the easier time here.
3. A monk does not do that much damage over a dragoon of equal gear and skill. Maybe you just lack one of the two compared to your monk counterpart. You're only i95 with unfinished Animus.
4. Dragoons need a buff to their magic defense yes. That does not make them glass cannon however. You're not required to take damage most of the time unless it's unavoidable damage. You're not tank. There's no reason whatsoever that you should do incredible damage. Now go complain about Summoners. They have one of the best mdef, best or second best single target damage, get boost with foe's requiem and very good small group aoe damage.
5. As for complexity of the optimal rotation, it's just optimal. It does not mean you will always be able to use it. It's a rotation you use on a dummy to test your maximum. How much efficiency you can bring to a fight depends on how well you adapt to the fight. At the end of the day, dragoon is still a priority-system job.

[Sygmaelle]

- stuff -

You know dragoon get even better when you realise that the optimal rotation on this forum is not even the most optimal one, how you can skip to refresh HT sometimes if you got blood for blood on and about to drop so you can favor to clip dots instead, that kind of stuff.

Its by far the most unsettling class to dps optimally with and thats why the drag is just lovely.

[Punypunk]

DRGs are not too weak and don't need a dps buff, all they need is a slight rework in their skills to make them more usable (see: feint, k flurry, RoT, jump, PS, elusive, x-class?). Also, yes to mdef.

A decent drg will tell you that the "incredibly complex" rotation is useless in actual battle. Drgs use a very manageable priority system.

Here are the facts:

• Drgs need 2 compulsory positionals to hit optimal dps and suffer a large penalty for missing them, while mnks have 4 non-compulsory positionals and suffer a comparatively smaller penalty for missing them.
• Drgs enjoy a faster ramp up, while mnks' ramp up is slower.
• Drgs have good burst, mnks have good sustained.
• Therefore in a high disconnect fight, drg>mnk; in a low dc fight, mnk>drg.

This shows that different fights favor different classes. Acknowledge this and don't be concerned about being top dps. Enjoy the job for the challenges in playing it optimally, don't let ego get in the way.

[Ephier]

Do not know why people keep saying dragoons are weak and need a buff, they are fine where they are. They have amazing burst, good sustain, a insta crit with self heal attached, and 2 gap closers (3 if you want to use elusive that way). Just enjoy the class and do not worry about epeen. Is your damage personally okay? If not try to improve your speed and accuracy of your rotation. Are you downing the content you want to down? If not see what you can do to improve your mechanical knowledge of the fights. Is your personal damage getting in the way of you downing that content? If your personal damage is too low as a dragoon, you are either undergeared, or not using your skills optimally.

[beowulf81]

thank you all very much for your responses, they've gone some way to restore the confidence in the class that i had lost a little of. Didn't mean to slight any monk mains by bringing that class up, its just the closest one i could think of and actually have personal experience against - i would say i at the least hold my own with my fellow melee'r within our static in the content we have tackled (EX Primals, T1-5) although i am slightly less geared; i just did not want to be holding my static back in future, more difficult content, due to perceived limitations of the class i play. Thank you for the reassurance you have provided regarding this, it is very appreciated.

[Aanmer]

Dragoon is very effective and their damage debuff also effects Bards so the total DPS output is higher. If you really want to put out the numbers and make your group love you, learn how to burst hard when needed and keep your sustain up (Heavy Thrust and Dots rolling).

Also there are a lot of really smooth moves a dragoon can do; for example lets say the Dreadknight is spawning on turn 8 so you go over to the back of the boss and do an impulse drive then your first attack on the Dreadknight is the debuff. Now you and the bard are doing 10% more right at the start and the thing just melts. Being geared and doing a hard burst on with all your buffs up on the Sahagin in Levi EX and having people go "???? What just happened?" Alone makes dragoon worth playing.

Plus if ROG/NIN use daggers, more power to the DRG. Probably slashing though but then PLD would get all teared up.