Relic quest summary -> Good by to casuals

[Pseudopsia]

Wtf is your definition of casual then? The entire relic quest line is so casual now

3. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/casual
a (1) : feeling or showing little concern : nonchalant <a casual approach to cooking> (2) : lacking a high degree of interest or devotion <casual sports fans> <casual readers> (3) : done without serious intent or commitment <casual sex>

Since relic quest requires a very large amount of time to complete it requires serious intent and commitment so it is not casual.

[muwa]

Wtf is your definition of casual then? The entire relic quest line is so casual now

Pseudopsia's definition is the most fitting. Casual approach is more about your dedication to the game than difficulty level, skill or playtime.

I think this new novus step requires too much dedication for many people to care (I won't, don't even have an animus weapon).

[Enepttastic]

Pseudopsia's definition is the most fitting. Casual approach is more about your dedication to the game than difficulty level, skill or playtime.

I think this new novus step requires too much dedication for many people to care (I won't, don't even have an animus weapon).

Really? Novus requires LESS dedication IMO than Animus. Even if Monster Hunts end up being idiotic, it's still less dedication than upgrading Atma to Animus.

Do your daily, get map, do the map. Do whatever you want after that.

Materia can be obtained while leveling alts or SBing during other content unless you'd prefer spending gil for em that is.

Why would someone not want to actually try to do a piece of content available? There's important story tied behind Coil and I would think people playing an FF game would want to experience that, regardless of whatever the drops are.

Regardless of what you say, I think in most cases it comes down to can't and not won't.

No, in most cases it's won't. Actually, in almost all cases it's going to be, "won't."

Note: The following speaks of MMOs overall and not FFXIV specifically:
Raids require the following:
Time
Effort
Skill
Other Players

And of course: Coordinating the above

Out of those five, "Time" is the only factor that will determine the difference between, "I can't raid," and "I can't raid, yet." Once that's figured out, the issue is deciding if you will or won't raid. If you will, you will put in the effort into getting geared, work on your skills and, if needed, find players to raid with. If you're not willing, then it's not that you can't raid, but won't, because you will not but forth the effort to get prepared.

Unlike how some high-level raiders seem to believe, most players do have the time, can put in the effort, and either already have the skill or can be taught and in any decently populated game, there's enough of em at various time-frames to allow for the coordination to take place.

Honestly though, many players who don't raid probably don't because they don't feel like putting up with the stress of it. Either from the tougher requirements or just dealing with the increased ratio of idiots to sane players.


04/20

[ChriZirhC]

Relic weapon : 1 dungeon, 3 primals, 2 trials, long quest -> 1-2 days
Zenith Weapon : 900 Myth -> 2-3 days

[Karnyboy]

I will have to agree with Enepttastic on this. I think the definition of casual is slightly skewed on this one. Some people are looking at it like they have no alternative BUT to farm for an animus, etc. I managed just fine with a Zenith, I am as casual as they come in the summer time I work 50+ hours a week and have maybe a few hours here and there in total on the weekends to play. If I get a chance to play I previously used it to farm for Atma (which I obtained over two weeks ago), now I have just completed my first book for the Animus, and I am still pretty darn casual. It doesn't bother me, I've not only accepted that I won't be one of these people who need to have the newest toys right out the gate, but I will be that one that still has them down the road on my own accord, it's not like they're removing these things from the game.

I think you need to pick and choose your battles more wisely. I really notice a lot of the forum go'ers have this odd sense of urgency to complete all things in FFXIV as fast as possible like the game is getting removed in a week.

[Moqi]

Eh, I got my Atma today and I didn't sweat much, nor I do to cap myth almost every week. I just do roulettes, beast tribes, and some Coil (T1-4). I've yet to see the huge grindfest people are talking about. I bought my first book today, I'll start working on it tomorrow, and I'll probably do a book a week, maybe more if I put some extra work into it. I don't really see how Novus is different... I have started leveling DPS magic classes and converting/keeping the materia I want for the infusion, and as far as Alexandrite go, there'll be more ways to obtain them in 2.3.

I feel this is as casual as it gets. You're not supposed to do it in a week. Just take your time, it's not a race.

[Karnyboy]

Eh, I got my Atma today and I didn't sweat much, nor I do to cap myth almost every week. I just do roulettes, beast tribes, and some Coil (T1-4). I've yet to see the huge grindfest people are talking about. I bought my first book today, I'll start working on it tomorrow, and I'll probably do a book a week, maybe more if I put some extra work into it. I don't really see how Novus is different... I have started leveling DPS magic classes and converting/keeping the materia I want for the infusion, and as far as Alexandrite go, there'll be more ways to obtain them in 2.3.

I feel this is as casual as it gets. You're not supposed to do it in a week. Just take your time, it's not a race.

Exactly. I don't know why some people don't get this.

[Enepttastic]

Exactly. I don't know why some people don't get this.

Let me enlighten you then:

Simplest reason is that some people just honestly enjoy running through content as fast as they're able to. Some do it for the thrill of being one of the pioneers, some do it for the bragging rights, another set do it because they want to complete it as it was "meant to be" before any potential "nerfs", and then others do it so they can get the information needed to help others understand/surpass the content.

Now, for Zodiac-Specific reasons? Primarily it's because there's not really much in the realm of options for players weapon-wise at the moment and honestly, the name of the game for MMOs is, "Upgrade, upgrade, upgrade!" When you hit 50 here, there's nothing left to upgrade but your gear and your weapon is pretty much the single-most important piece.

Now, take into account that it's not too daunting a task to get one's Zenith weapon players are stuck at a few options if they want to improve their weapon:

1. Leviathan Ex(Wave/Tidal Wave)
2. Binding Coil(t5)
3. Second Coil(t9)
4. Soldiery Tokens(Weathered)
5. Zodiac

Now....

1. Leviathan Ex is currently gated via Titan Ex which, unless you have a competent raid group you run with or buy a carry, you're practically dealing with as much RNG to get past it as you will be hoping for a weapon/mirror drop in Levi Ex.
2. Not everyone cares to raid, so that takes away (High) Allegan Weapons for another chunk of the player-base. Those that do raid have only one shot a week for the High Allegan however.
3. Can't grab a Weathered Weapon without a T2 drop so those who steer clear of coil are out again. Even if you do run coil, you're probably better off spending your soldiery tokens on armor/accessories for your class or alt classes instead.

Thus, we have the Zodiac Weapons, which, can be continuously upgraded, and if you keep em upgraded, should at least be a competent weapon to get your foot in the door for any of the end-game content. Additionally, the process isn't difficult, albeit horrifically tedious for Atma/Animus, and can be done in your off-time. This makes the Zodiac weapons an appealing idea to work on for casuals to raiders, even if you have a better weapon currently.

Thus, a good chunk of the player-base will be working on their Zodiacs at some point in time. Notable exceptions to this are the:

• "Don't raid, don't care, Zenith's good enough for me!" Crowd
• "F this upgrade BS" Crowd

Which brings us back to why rush it? Well, as mentioned before, "Upgrades, upgrades, upgrades!" being one reason. Most people will naturally want to get an upgrade as soon as possible. However, there's one more reason I hadn't touched upon yet.

That would be the "Just get it over with" types. These started on the upgrade and, for whatever reason, just want it done. May be because they have a better weapon already and merely want their Zodiac to be up to date for when the next upgrade comes around and would prefer to just hurry up and get it done with. Others may just have an OCD-esque mentality and once they start working on it, they don't want to do anything else until it's done.

Personally, I'm a mix of those two along with upgrade syndrome. However, I don't mind the Zodiac weapons being something that takes time and effort. That doesn't bother me at all, in fact from what I've heard about the Novus path thus far, I think it's almost perfect. Those who want to rush it have their options, those who don't but want to actually make progress have an option as well. I do think there's a few flaws with it, but they're minor compared to anything from the Atma/Animus design. I can easily argue at length as to how both of those upgrade paths are examples of bad design.

That said, I do think that anyone complaining about the myth maps, or "It's going to take forever" on Novus needs to shut the hell up. Atma/Animus bitching is completely warranted, not due to time but the tedious nature of it and Yoshi really should make some sort of response regarding the obscene use of Myth Tomes in the questline.

[Vahlnir]

-snip-

I personally don't mind the time sink, or the possible gil sink for that matter. Just going to give that part some time to let the prices of materia drop...hopefully. The possibility of failure upon melding is also questionable at best, so I may wait a little longer to see how that plays out. Now, the maps on the other hand...I welcome a challenge every so often, but I must admit my first impressions of being blown to smithereens fighting the Mythril Golem were very off-putting. If they decide to tune the mobs required down a little bit I won't complain. It wouldn't be so bad to just do at least 75 maps, 1 per day or 2 depending on your Myth supply, but it's left too much to chance and takes away some sense of progress with it's current difficulty. Some, not all. I'm aware that there are more ways coming in 2.3 to obtain the Alexandrites on top of what we have already with fates and maps, and that's fine. But what we have now is somewhat flawed, fates and all, considering our previous grind. Zenith>Atma>Animus is where SE hit a happy medium in my opinion.

[Enepttastic]

<snip>

Honestly, I don't mind the time sink either. It's when the time sink is utterly tedious(Atma), goes against what the lead developer said(Look at my sig), come to find out is even more BS due to more information from the lead developer(Animus books aren't actually the original, potentially "hard to find in Eorzea" copies that we were told, in game, they'd be, thus making their cost even more idiotic), that I begin to have issues.

For the relic upgrades, as I said before, aside from the myth buy-in to start Novus, I don't have a single problem with how it appears to be. The Atma/Animus situation on the other hand.....