Novus weapon upgrade system findings

[Arkista]

Still wouldn't confirm anything if he hasn't maxed crit/acc/sps on it. Even then, he'd need to make it a novus to confirm. It'd be nice if you can have 44 crit 31 det but... it's SE we're talking about and I have less faith in them than you do.

If it had a cap then why wouldn't it say so? If you look at Piety on Spharia it has a cap of 23, If SE was going to make DET cap at a lower value when finished, Then why even put the cap at 31?

[Lemon8or]

If it had a cap then why wouldn't it say so? If you look at Piety on Spharia it has a cap of 23, If SE was going to make DET cap at a lower value when finished, Then why even put the cap at 31?

Because piety is not a native stat to monk so it's natural that piety cap would be lower. I'd guess spell-speed has a lower cap on Sphairai than Omnilex/Thyrus/Stardust Rod/Veil of Wiyu. This is based from past experience like that one guy assuming piety caps are the same on bard gear vs healer gear while it's not the case a while back.
But like I said, it's all speculation right now. Your guess is as good as mine. No point in arguing about it until someone actually finishes one.
Also, because Determination cap for i110 is actually 31. It doesn't mean you'll be able to cap Determination AND Crit/SkS/SpS/Acc if the Novus follows the general trends of being only capped on 1 stat, see Book of Spades. It also assumes that SE doesn't want people to cap 2 stats if they choose Determination while not being able to cap 2 stats if they do not, for example crit and sps, both can't reach cap of 44 as we only have 75 points.
As speculation again, you have a choice to either do 44 crit 22 det or 31 crit 31 det after 75 melds depending on which one you cap first.

[Donjo]

As speculation again, you have a choice to either do 44 crit 22 det or 31 crit 31 det after 75 melds depending on which one you cap first.

Being given this choice would be all kinds of awesome. And by choice, I mean that if you meld 44 X and 31 Det, you'll be able to choose whether you want 44/22 or 31/31 when you're making the final upgrade to Novus. I highly doubt we'll actually be able to get 44 X and 31 Det as that equals 87.7 points of stat weight instead of 75. This is assuming a Det weight of ~1.41, which seems accurate enough for simple calculations

If you want to play with Piety, I think that one's ~1.34.

[Viore]

44 X and 31 Det as that equals 87.7 points of stat weight instead of 75.

do i live in a different world or why was i tought that 44 + 31 equals 75...?

[AlyssaFhey]

do i live in a different world or why was i tought that 44 + 31 equals 75...?

Even though the caps are indicative of the different weights, people seem to think that you'll be capped before the cap. My bet is that you can have 31 det and 44 crit on your novus else it wouldn't be listed as such.

[Donjo]

do i live in a different world or why was i tought that 44 + 31 equals 75...?

Let me do the Math for you. Let's take two i110 weapons that currently have Determination.

The Glanzfaust: 44 Accuracy and 22 Determination. 44 + 22 = 66.
The Book of Spades: 31 Crit Rate and 31 Determination. 31 + 31 = 62.

66? 62? What? Don't we have 75 points to meld? Let's look at a couple of other weapons.

The Laevateinn: 44 Accuracy and 31 Spell Speed. 44 + 31 = 75.
The Rosenbogen: 31 Crit Rate and 44 Skill Speed. 31 + 44 = 75.

Ah, that's better. So, why do these weapons without Determination add up to 75 and the weapons with Determination add up to something lower? Because Determination has a higher weight than other stats. i110 weapons have a cap of 75 "points" of secondary stats. Crit Rate, Accuracy, and Spell/Skill Speed have the same weight. They each cost one "point" out of our 75. It can be surmised, therefore, that Determination costs more than one point. Let's think of it this way.

The Glanzfaust has 44 accuracy. Subtract that from 75 and we have 31 points left. The only other stat is Determination, so it can be seen that the remaining 31 "points" are in Determination. However, the stat says 22. This is because Determination costs more than one point. Let's discover just how much it costs.

Divide the 31 points assigned to Determination by the 22 it becomes and we get 1.409. Let's round this up to 1.41.

We can additionally test the Book of Spades. 75 "points" minus the 31 Crit we have is 44 points. 44 points assigned to Determination divided by the 31 we end up with is 1.419. Quite similar to our number from the Glanzfaust, yes? Let's take a mid-range out of both of these and declare the weight of Determination as being about 1.415, give or take a step or two. The actual number is probably more precise, but this will do for our simple calculations.

This means that every point of Determination on your piece of gear costs 1.415 points out of the amount of "points" allocated to that piece's secondary stats. Let's redo our math with these weights in mind.

The Glanzfaust: 44 x 1.0 = 44 Accuracy and 22 x 1.415 = 31.13 Determination = 75.13. We can round this down to 75.
The Book of Spades: 31 x 1.0 = 31 Crit and 31 x 1.415 = 43.86 Determination = 74.86. We can round this up to 75.

As you can see, these weapons with Determination have 75 secondary points attached to them after all. Now, let's redo the 44 X + 31 Det equation you're disputing, using, say... Crit, as the X.

44 x 1.0 = 44 Crit and 31 x 1.415 = 43.86 Determination = 87.86. We can round this up to 88 if we want. This number is clearly higher than 75, the number I've just proved is the cap for i110 weapons; even those with Determination. Therefore, it will very likely not be the case that we can actually have 44 of a 1:1 ratio stat and 31 Determination at the same time. The weights won't match up with the intended total of 75. Novus Weapons with Determination would be unequivocally better than weapons without it, and I doubt SE is stupid enough to let this happen.

My theory is that infusing 31 "points" of Determination into a weapon will give you 22 of the actual stat at the moment of the Novus upgrade. Alternatively, it would be cool if we were given the choice to go ahead and have 31 Determination and reduce any other stats on the weapon accordingly if we wanted. This higher weight, however, is no excuse to let those who choose Determination infuse fewer materia into their scroll. It would be unfair if some people got their Novus faster than others just because they chose different stats. Everyone has to infuse 75.

[ManweSulimo]

(^)

(EDIT - and by the way I appreciate this analysis)

+10 to SE if they allow the "88 stat points" (31 det, 44 crit) because if this is how it works, then this is the true reward for putting in the grueling hours of effort grinding myth and the lower chances for success with the determination stat. So imo 31 det, 33 pie, 11 ss (by your math 44 + 44 + 11 = 99 stat points) for the BiS thyrus novus.

SE I will be so happy with you if this is the case ^^

[Arkista]

My theory is that infusing 31 "points" of Determination into a weapon will give you 22 of the actual stat at the moment of the Novus upgrade.

Why would Novus have to follow the same pattern as the other ilvl110 weapons? I'm telling you its going to be 31DET cap otherwise it wouldn't say 0/31. If the value was only going to be 22 DET in the final form, then SE would have capped it 0/22, Then a weapon could have been something like 44CRIT, 22DET, 9ACC. I get SE `does a lot of stuff wrong, But I really think if they wanted DET to cap at 22 in the final form they would have put a hard cap of 22 while melding.

[Donjo]

Why would Novus have to follow the same pattern as the other ilvl110 weapons? I'm telling you its going to be 31DET cap otherwise it wouldn't say 0/31. If the value was only going to be 22 DET in the final form, then SE would have capped it 0/22, Then a weapon could have been something like 44CRIT, 22DET, 9ACC. I get SE `does a lot of stuff wrong, But I really think if they wanted DET to cap at 22 in the final form they would have put a hard cap of 22 while melding.

The problem with that is that, either:

1. People who chose Determination get to infuse fewer times to get to the total weight of 75
or
2. Anyone who chooses Determination gets to exceed the 75 point cap.

Either way, there's an imbalance. People either complain about "we need Determination to finish this in a timely fashion and it sucks for my class!" or "our Novus is useless unless we have Determination? WTF SE!"

My equations above showed that 31 can equal 22 and 44 can equal 31. Only time will answer the question of what the stats will do in the final hour.

[Rednight]

Let me do the Math for you. Let's take two i110 weapons that currently have Determination.

The Glanzfaust: 44 Accuracy and 22 Determination. 44 + 22 = 66.
The Book of Spades: 31 Crit Rate and 31 Determination. 31 + 31 = 62.

Well... From another point of view...

My Thyrus Animus has 29 Det and 28 SS.

Let's say i want to max out Det (cap at 31 on scroll) and PIE (cap at 33).
After i maxed theese 2 stats i will sit at 64 points into the scroll.
If i'm forced to put the last 11 point into something else, only to find out my Det got gimped from 29 down to 22, i'd be pretty pissed...