Remove Enrage Timers

[Enepttastic]

Meh, enrage timers aren't a problem that needs to be addressed at all. I will admit that the stance against parsers is rather inane although, being someone who played XI before they finally figured out that, maybe, letting users play computer game windowed was a good idea, I'm not surprised at this in the slightest. Disappointed, but not surprised at the mindset.

And honestly, I think you're off as to why people want parsers. Yeah, there's a minority who do with em as you claim the majority do, but in the time I've spent playing MMOs, I tend to see them used in this order:

1. Gauging one's personal numbers against others or previous attempts.
2. Epeening about ZOMG BIG NUMBAHS!
3. Pointing out someone who's not even attempting to pull their weight.

#1 is why I do use parsers if possible, I like to know that I'm pulling my weight in a group and it also allows me a way to check how different tactics work out in a situation.

#2 is annoying, I'll admit but has its moments of glorious hilarity when the "ZOMG I DPS SOOOOOOO MUUUUUUUUUUCH" types die because they don't know how to hold their aggro and you can chuckle as their numbers go down the toilet.

#3 yes, can be used to harass other players but honestly not anymore than the methods in game allow already. Even then, it has a very useful reason to exist: In randoms, I may find someone who's under-performing thanks to a poor rotation or the like and offer advice.

It's actually in this regard that I bemoan the lack of being able to send tells in dungeons. I'd rather, when running as DPS, have a chance to speak to the tank in private if I'm noticing some areas they could improve upon.

#3 also is damned useful in pre-formed/static content. I've had a static in another game where a healer was honestly dragging us down. Several weeks of multiple fights showed as much. We're not talking about a 10-15% deficit either, closer to 40-50% compared to the other healers. Hell, as a tank that had decent self-healing as part of my defensive suite, I was outhealing that healer. A few of us noticed the issue, discussed it and approached the person best suited(Guild Leader) to talk to the healer(His GF) about the problem.

Weeks passed, absolutely no improvement(gear or ability-wise) by the healer occurred during that time and we finally replaced her. If we didn't have access to a parser, we probably wouldn't have been able to notice the issue and take any action.

If she had shown any attempt at improving, we'd have kept her and had no qualms about it. Alas, she never once took any of us up on offers to run content that'd get her tokens for better gear, or ask any of the other healers in the guild for help in her rotations.

Honestly though, I think parsers are considerably less damaging to MMO communities than guides for fights are.

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You will see PF looking for 1 tank 7 healers party as common if no enrage timer.

Ugh, no thanks. I'd much rather fights take less than an hour to finish.

[Awrini]

Well shit someone just made a logical post in favor of DPS parsers. Thread will be deleted wthin 24 hours after pages of back and forth bs. Enjoy the show.

[Zumi]

Let me tell you a story about the time I got Titan HM in the Trial Roulette.

I was playing Paladin, and had a SCH healer we were the only 2 that could dodge stuff. Everyone else was dead at about 45% or so left to go because they were bad at dodging. But me and the healer decided to keep going, neither of us made any mistakes. I had to bust him out of the rock so many times, fought Titan for 35 min before he died. The sch used the LB3 at 5% raised like 3 guys that didn't fall out, even then during that 5% 2 of them managed to get killed again.

That is why we have enrage timers because a few people can carry everyone else that is unskilled at the fight and take as long as you want to win.

[Marcusow86]

Disagree, enrage timer is there to give DPS a target to achieve to win. Every class have their own 'enrage timer' to deal with, DPS should not be excluded.

If Enrage timer were removed, many DPS will just auto-hit boss.

One thing i would like to see changed is the HARD enrage of bosses, dealing more damage cannot be the reason a party wipe to a boss.

[Noahlimits]

First off, I have nothing personally against enrage timers. The whole point of this topic is that SE clearly said that they are against people parsing (by saying they won't ever make their own in battle one); which I'm totally okay with. It's their game, they run it as they see fit. With that being said, I feel like putting in enrage timers goes against that whole philosophy. I am not advocating parsing and I personally have never done so. But I can't help but feel that making hard to reach enrage timers strongly goes against that.

Second, it seems like a bunch of people have selective reading.

Enrage timers exist for two purposes;

1. It prevents healer stacking. You could otherwise bring 3-4 healers to every fight and have a much easier time unless there are harsh dps checks throughout.

You will see PF looking for 1 tank 7 healers party as common if no enrage timer.

For Raenryong's second unquoted point, I'm not arguing with that. But it's very hard to tell if you're cutting the mustard on a high end fights if you have a semi-decent rotation since they aren't making their own for in game. Yes, they aren't needed if someone is obviously doing a very bad rotation. But if someone is doing a semi-not-super-terribad rotation, it would otherwise be hard to tell if their dps was the reason for the hard enrage. Thank Jeebus I'm a healer and don't have to worry about DPS much, right?

I very clearly said in my original post:

I understand one of the reasons for enrage timers is because otherwise parties would just stock up on 5+ healers to grind out wins in content that they aren't ready for (think t2 enrage). For this reason, I'd suggest locking in required slots for raiding (2 tanks, 2 healers, 4 dps). This would prevent one tanking strategies, but SE has shown that they don't like that in the first place (introducing forced tank swapping stacks, and what brainjack was originally supposed to do in T8 before people found a way to circumvent that).

Let me tell you a story about the time I got Titan HM in the Trial Roulette.

I was playing Paladin, and had a SCH healer we were the only 2 that could dodge stuff. Everyone else was dead at about 45% or so left to go because they were bad at dodging. But me and the healer decided to keep going, neither of us made any mistakes. I had to bust him out of the rock so many times, fought Titan for 35 min before he died. The sch used the LB3 at 5% raised like 3 guys that didn't fall out, even then during that 5% 2 of them managed to get killed again.

That is why we have enrage timers because a few people can carry everyone else that is unskilled at the fight and take as long as you want to win.

How is this any different than people carrying other players now?

It wasn't AV it was Pandemonium Warden that the group took 18 hours. Guess what square did in response to that. Put enrage timers on him and AV.

But our instances already have 60-90 minute timers for most difficult end game content. That situation isn't even possible unless there was a boss that wasn't in a instance that was of high difficulty (no, Odin and Behemoth don't count as hard bosses).

[4clubbedace]

How is this any different than people carrying other players now?



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well first off you cant have two people whittling away at a fight, if you near full party wipe then you are, fure sure not making the timelimit at the 8 minute mark.

in reality to die before this due to mechanics being body checks though

[SDaemon]

Always get a chuckle out of people quoting and responding to posts made so very long ago. 10 years is a long time to be responding to someone over any topic lol.

[Sove92]

One thing i would like to see changed is the HARD enrage of bosses, dealing more damage cannot be the reason a party wipe to a boss.

This is the basic problem in hard enrages. It's an equivalent of "You have hit me enough, now face my true power", which makes no sense because the boss wouldn't let you kill it if it had such a powerful attack. Twintania can be excused with the collar holding back her power (after phase 4 Profusion, she needs to charge up before she can spam it), but many other enrages, not so much.

Either way, they exist for a reason and are not going away.

[Sylvain]

This is the basic problem in hard enrages. It's an equivalent of "You have hit me enough, now face my true power", which makes no sense because the boss wouldn't let you kill it if it had such a powerful attack. Twintania can be excused with the collar holding back her power (after phase 4 Profusion, she needs to charge up before she can spam it), but many other enrages, not so much.

Either way, they exist for a reason and are not going away.

TBH they could simply just make enrage look cooler, like the boss does an unavoidable pattern. Basically, he figured out what was wrong with his strat and just finishes you.
Or something cool, a bit lore related like the enrage of P12S part 2. A boring hard cast but with a wonderful animation.

Hard enrage should just look like soft enrage.

[Saraide]

TBH they could simply just make enrage look cooler, like the boss does an unavoidable pattern. Basically, he figured out what was wrong with his strat and just finishes you.
Or something cool, a bit lore related like the enrage of P12S part 2. A boring hard cast but with a wonderful animation.

Hard enrage should just look like soft enrage.

TEA has by far the coolest enrage in the game, followed by UWU and P12s p2. E6s has a witty one where a previous mechanic becomes the enrage by just moving the boss to the edge of the arena. E12s p2 also has a really sick lead up to enrage but functionally it is just a regular enrage cast.