Shocked at the reduction in mage damage, quadruple mp cost, and lowered resources

[Shika]

The main concern I have for this "foundation" patch until they hopefully fix it is the hate generation- does no-one else find this to be broken?

I played CON yesterday in our usual trio trying out leves to see how the new SP gains were going to work and for the first time in a long time I died.... Now in FFXI I played WHM and RDM so managing hate and casting cure when needed rather than spamming is not alien to me.
Doing a leve last night I waited for our tank to run in, engage the mob and gain a good amount of hate. His HP went down to ~a third so I cast Cure II.... the mob loses interest in the tank completely after this one Cure II and I get hit. This wasn't a one-off occurrence either.

In a different area a friend changed to CON and I was PUG tanking. He had exactly the same problem- I had run in, engaged the mob, provoked and laid down a ton of hate tools but as soon as he cast Cure II on me it lost interest. Now if we are both doing something fundamentally wrong (and without the flaming please) I would like to know how people have dealt with this. Using Soughspeak seemed to help a little, although as soon as the effect wore off (it only lasts 30seconds) then there was the same problem again- mob turns immediately to the healer.

I would like to know other people's thoughts and suggestions ^^

[Shai]

People are going to tell you to find better tanks.

No matter what you do or say or how much you trust your tank.
It's his fault.

They system could never be faulty. Square-Enix has such an outstanding reputation for perfect game balance, customer service and quality of work that to suggest otherwise would be supremely unwise, or at least historically inaccurate.

But, yes, I did notice all the best tanks I've ever played with in XI and XIV suddenly were terrible tanks overnight as if someone put "forget all you ever learned about XI and XIV" in their morning tea.

[Shika]

But, yes, I did notice all the best tanks I've ever played with in XI and XIV suddenly were terrible tanks overnight as if someone put "forget all you ever learned about XI and XIV" in their morning tea.

>< Well it gives me some comfort to find that I'm not the only one that has noticed this. Ah well... it's going to be interesting until they hopefully put a fix into their hate algorithm.

[Solfleur]

Lovely, CON has been totally nerfed. Good from bad players...? BS. Granted, I do have to work around MS, which means some of the posts I have made on these boards are a bit retarded sounding in retrospect, but I don't have much of an emotional filter--I say what I feel in the heat of the moment. That said, and having given a good couple days of thought into this before posting...I still say CON has been totally effing NERFED. For once there was a magic user able to solo through a game without being USED and ABUSED by brainless weapon swingers (no I don't really feel that way, as I've played the warrior classes to endgame in FFXI and have several leveled to mid levels in this game) ...and SE IMMEDIATELY has to nerf the living hell out of us and make us dependent on the "protection" of the "party system" ...slaves to the collective, as usual. What an effing YAWN. I am SO glad I haven't paid a dime toward paying this game because they have now effectively ensured it will never be worth it. And to any "brilliant" persons who honestly think this total nerf fest separates good players from bad, I can only say I'm sorry you've missed your place in time. You'd have been happy slave holders in the American south. "Good" people of a "certain class" were forced into their "proper place" back then too! I cannot begin to express how offensive I found that comment. As a rdm in FFXI I was better than most whm's when drafted in a pinch to main heal and I subbed blm. I think I can play the game just fine, thank you. Nerfed is nerfed. It's insane to be unable to get through a 30 leve at rank 31 with good gear using all possible magic conserving spells without running out of mp 3/4 of the way through the fight. THIS NEEDS FIXED NOW!

[LuxLex]

They system could never be faulty. Square-Enix has such an outstanding reputation for perfect game balance, customer service and quality of work that to suggest otherwise would be supremely unwise, or at least historically inaccurate.

But, yes, I did notice all the best tanks I've ever played with in XI and XIV suddenly were terrible tanks overnight as if someone put "forget all you ever learned about XI and XIV" in their morning tea.

Yeah, got to love the people that think the only people who should be playing this game are people who think the developers are infallible.

[Neptune]

Mages have now to use more about abilities and im sure more people will try to understand more the stats of each spell like Aegis HP recover or if Drain worths the MP and all that kinda things. People need to think more and not just execute.

Drain only drains HP? Am I wrong?

Watching your MP and deciding who to prioritize for heals = dumbed down from what exactly? Spamming Cure and Sac with AoE on?

Zombie healers aside, many of us enjoyed playing more than doing just healing. People like to criticize others for being incompetent but we were very competent mages, far more useful in a fight than just healing.

>< Well it gives me some comfort to find that I'm not the only one that has noticed this. Ah well... it's going to be interesting until they hopefully put a fix into their hate algorithm.

From what I understand there is no algorithm any longer. It's simply a cumulative hate system. So I don't know if damage and curing are a 1:1 ratio of hate, but maybe he would have to do more damage then you are curing him for.

[Bramble]

I read up to about page 24. I think a LOT of people are missing the point here.

The OP isn't asking for afk 'easy mode' healing, he's saying that for anyone who didn't want to be stuck at the back, reserving MP for heals only, are now stuck at the back, reserving their MP for heals only.

I played FFXI, my main was a WHM and to be honest, it was dull, so dull infact that i changed my main to PUP, way more fun! As WHM, more often than not, you end up eating cookies and resting while everyone else gets to play the game.

That's where i thought XIV had it right, a mage that could do quests on their OWN without fear of dying after one hit; a mage capable of benefiting a party with more than just heals. I totally agree that DoM needed tweaking but typecasting them into specific roles was/is not the answer.

I liked the prospect that this game was going to be different, classes could be played to the players specification. Why should a person who wants to nuke be forced into playing a healer? Would a PGL be happy playing the role of a healer while all their fun attacks get left behind to reserve their mp for heals; spending half there time inactive to regain MP needed for said heals? (Imagine that TP didn't exist and all skills used MP, that way you might sympathise a little more).

I know that there is still much to be done in regards to the battle system (and the game in general) but i think that a lot of you should try and see this from both sides of the coin.

Just because mage's have always been squishy and acted as healers in the past, why should that stereotype stay the same when it's boring? I think that MMO's are all falling into the same trap where you must have the standard set-up of at least 1 tank (who isn't MP based); a squishy mage to heal, but not for anything else (except maybe the odd buff/ debuff when MP allows); and then a couple of DD's in order to succeed in doing anything. Who says tanks need to be melee based? Why can't they be magic based? Why can't healers throw a nuke or two or three or four? I think it's terrible when you can't play a game because you can't find a tank or healer to party with.

Eventually we're gonna have to pay to play this game, and time spent seeking parties is money being thrown away, doing nothing. That is definitely one thing i won't miss from XI.

Apologies for the wall of text.

[Raim]

That makes no sense though. Conjurer IS the healer and nuke class. Either you heal or nuke. Whats the issue? If you play with friends/linkshell, they will let you go as nuke Conjurer. I know mine does. You can even throw a few heals in an emergency if you want. If you are a HEALER in an MMO though, you only need to be healing, and removing debuffs from players.

[Spellbinder]

That makes no sense though. Conjurer IS the healer and nuke class. Either you heal or nuke. Whats the issue? If you play with friends/linkshell, they will let you go as nuke Conjurer. I know mine does. You can even throw a few heals in an emergency if you want. If you are a HEALER in an MMO though, you only need to be healing, and removing debuffs from players.

The issue is that because of these changes, even on the JP forms players have developed a "what are you doing wasting MP on elemental spells? heal me you dumbdumb" mentality. If you for example are you starting off in the game and don't have your "friends/linkshell" do you really think people are going to let you play offensively with a Conjurer now?

Edit:

When I first saw this game and was wondering what class I was going to be, I saw Conjurer as the master of elements and that's why I got into this game. This patch has demoted them to master of heals, and if things don't change I'm going to be very disappointed with this game

[Bramble]

The issue is that because of these changes, even on the JP forms players have developed a "what are you doing wasting MP on elemental spells? heal me you dumbdumb" mentality. If you for example are you starting off in the game and don't have your "friends/linkshell" do you really think people are going to let you play offensively with a Conjurer now?

Edit:

When I first saw this game and was wondering what class I was going to be, I saw Conjurer as the master of elements and that's why I got into this game. This patch has demoted them to master of heals, and if things don't change I'm going to be very disappointed with this game

Precisely! There was no 'healer' class, it was a case of make your own class and heal yourself if needs be. It was never a case of, 'you are a mage, therefore you must be the healer' but that's what it seems to be turning into now. This isn't FFXI, it doesn't have to be exactly the same for it to be fun. When did Square ever make two identical FF games? They've always had elements from the other games but utilised differently and that's what makes the FF series unique from any other in my opinion.

But let's not forget that there is still a lot to be added, where hopefully, some kind of balance can be reached and we can all play the game to its full potential and enjoy every aspect of it. Is it possible? I reeeeally hope so!