Current State of End-Game Contents - A Blog Post from A Japanese Player

[Sapphic]

The original OP, wrote that endgame content which is for hardcore players wouldn't exist if there wasn't funding from the majority of players that wont get to experience this aspect of the game.

To be fair that is their choice not to attempt it. Also they are adding story modes to raids as they move onwards starting with Alexander. I don't PvP in FFXIV, but I don't petition for them to change it. I don't hard core craft either and also I don't petition or expect them to change it either. I just don't partake of them. I craft consumables that I use and that's about it. Neither do I hunt for big fish either or care that much about NM hunting.

None of those I expect to be changed to suit me and neither would I want to. So why is it suddenly ok to demand changes to something that some players aren't interested in either because they want to do it, but they don't want to do it either?

Before you say about 5% this 10% that. I would love more players to take on challenging content and progress as that would validate more resources being pout into creating challenging content instead of the small amount, in comparison to the other content that is vastly more doable by more players.

We get one piece of challenging content every 6 months compared to the myriad 4 people dungeons, the much easier 24 person raids, primal fights, side quests, main story quests which, pretty much, everyone can complete. Yet you want to take away that one piece of content aimed at those who enjoy a challenge? Don't you think that is a bit selfish overall?

[Darra]

So why is it suddenly ok to demand changes to something that some players aren't interested in either because they want to do it, but they don't want to do it either?

Before you say about 5% this 10% that. I would love more players to take on challenging content and progress as that would validate more resources being pout into creating challenging content instead of the small amount, in comparison to the other content that is vastly more doable by more players.
We get one piece of challenging content every 6 months compared to the myriad 4 people dungeons, the much easier 24 person raids, primal fights, side quests, main story quests which, pretty much, everyone can complete. Yet you want to take away that one piece of content aimed at those who enjoy a challenge? Don't you think that is a bit selfish overall?

At what point did I or the OP ask for nerfs and everything to be made easier? This discussion started out as one criticizing the way every raid boss follows the same principles, one that requires someone to memorize the boss HP %'s that trigger set skills, it was also criticizing the lack of options (options like taking 3 healers into a raid, or using Titan-Egi to tank). I have done all of the raid content in game, and I find it all too easy. The only thing I've found hard, is the fact I am forced to change my camera angle just for dive bombs, and this is more of an annoyance than it is a difficulty. The fact that I as a scholar can go into T13 and spend 60% of the fight in cleric stance and never drop below 40% of my mana and do not require a bard to play Mage's Ballad for me when I'm in ilvl 118 gear, tells me it's too easy. I have nothing against scripted boss fights, it's the fact that there is little to no leeway in when these mechanics are performed makes it a test of memory more than a test of how good I am at playing whack-a-mole with people's HP bars, especially when most of the time the damage players take will either kill them outright or leave them with enough HP that they wont need a heal for at least another 20-30 seconds so I don't have to rush to heal them.

The second point I think you've missed is that you're assuming people don't do Coil because they do not want to. There are a lot of people that want to do it, but they don't know enough people, they aren't in the "IT" crowd or they can't find enough people that're good at memorizing AND competent with their job. This game was originally set up in a way where you get 8 people together and do the content then you can't help out others. Recently they made changes so that the lockouts in FCOB were removed so you could help other people, but look how long that took to implement. I've seen many FC's with 100+ players, the one thing they all have in common is that they are all a collection of static raid groups, until content is put in the DF or they changed the lockout/loot chest quantity, players from group 1 didn't raid with players from group 2, so you effectively have no benefit being in an FC that size. If you look at WOW for example, they used to have 40 & 20 person raids, then somewhere along the lines they made a good decision, they allowed content to be raided as a 10 person group or 20 (maybe it was 25, it's been a few years now since I played). What's good about this is that you have content that scales based on how many players you have, the boss HP was adjusted based on the group size, the amount of people hit by some mechanics was increased too. The 10 player versions were harder because each person dying would be felt that much more than in the 20(25?) player version, but most importantly, players had the choice, the choice of doing the harder version or the slightly easier version. This offered the best of both worlds, it meant that players were given an option, not forced to play an easy mode, or get miserable in a mode too hard for them.

[Sapphic]

The second point I think you've missed is that you're assuming people don't do Coil because they do not want to. There are a lot of people that want to do it, but they don't know enough people, they aren't in the "IT" crowd or they can't find enough people that're good at memorizing AND competent with their job.

I knew no-one when I started FFXIV 2.0 back in beta, and after launch I made an effort to reach out and find an FC. about 6 months and 3 FCs later I found one that I made the effort to help people out, showed I was a competent player and got invited to join a static that I'm still in to this day.

There are plenty of players in the situation that you bring up, but it's only themselves stopping from reaching out and activally finding other like minded players to start to form a team to run with. To be honest many don't want to make any type of effort to obtain their goals (aka the shinies) they just want them handed to them with the least amount of "effort". Don't bring up "Real life responsibilities" many Raid statics are able to organise around them on a week to week basis. As we do with members with families, full time employement, 2 are even full time teachers. We change the weekly schedule to fit members RL schedules. We aren't the only one that does that. Most of those with members in the same situation do also. So if we can do it, there is nothing stopping anyone else doing it, except themselves and there misconcieved notion that you can only raid succesfully if you are unemployed or a student.

Also you do realise SE has listened and is putting 2 versions of 8 person raid content in game going forwards? But you will still have some thinking they should be able to obtain the savage mode Alex gear without having to put in any effort to socialize or learn the fights.

[Darra]

Also you do realise SE has listened and is putting 2 versions of 8 person raid content in game going forwards? But you will still have some thinking they should be able to obtain the savage mode Alex gear without having to put in any effort to socialize or learn the fights.

Ah, thank you for informing me of my thinking, even though it's not what you're telling me it is. Just because you're successful with being sociable, doesn't mean everyone is. Just because you've got the confidence to make and lead a raid group when you can't find an existing one with a spot for you, doesn't mean everyone is. Your entire argument is that the game design is "fine because I can do it" and that "if players can't it's their own fault". My argument is that the game lacks options, it's repeating the same old crap and it wouldn't hurt to cater to more players and give players a little of something else other than a memory game. I'm also glad that there's going to be 2 modes of Alexander, and that we can challenge content with fewer than the recommended number or players, but it still doesn't encourage people to "socialize" in groups bigger than 8. 8 is a pretty small number for an MMO wouldn't you agree?

[Zumi]

Ah, thank you for informing me of my thinking, even though it's not what you're telling me it is. Just because you're successful with being sociable, doesn't mean everyone is. Just because you've got the confidence to make and lead a raid group when you can't find an existing one with a spot for you, doesn't mean everyone is. Your entire argument is that the game design is "fine because I can do it" and that "if players can't it's their own fault". My argument is that the game lacks options, it's repeating the same old crap and it wouldn't hurt to cater to more players and give players a little of something else other than a memory game. I'm also glad that there's going to be 2 modes of Alexander, and that we can challenge content with fewer than the recommended number or players, but it still doesn't encourage people to "socialize" in groups bigger than 8. 8 is a pretty small number for an MMO wouldn't you agree?

Yes they already said they putting in 2 Alexander raids. The normal mode they said is CT like lockout so you can keep queuing up to get the piece of gear you want. Savage on the other hand is like the same as coil lockout was.

[Teryaani]

Ah, thank you for informing me of my thinking, even though it's not what you're telling me it is.

In fairness, that sounded like a general statement. I can't be sure of intent, but my suspicion is that that wasn't meant to tell you how you think.

Just because you're successful with being sociable, doesn't mean everyone is. Just because you've got the confidence to make and lead a raid group when you can't find an existing one with a spot for you, doesn't mean everyone is. Your entire argument is that the game design is "fine because I can do it" and that "if players can't it's their own fault".

I feel you on this. I took it more as a 'you get back what you put in'. Endgame in pretty much every MMO requires you to pound the (virtual) pavement a bit (or a lot) and not every FC is as flexible as Sapphic's is, but they do exist. As she said, she went through three before finding it. Without a good FC or linkshell, you pretty much are out in the cold.

My argument is that the game lacks options, it's repeating the same old crap and it wouldn't hurt to cater to more players and give players a little of something else other than a memory game. I'm also glad that there's going to be 2 modes of Alexander, and that we can challenge content with fewer than the recommended number or players, but it still doesn't encourage people to "socialize" in groups bigger than 8. 8 is a pretty small number for an MMO wouldn't you agree?

It's around the sweet spot for endgame raiding. Organizing large groups of players is really really hard. My old FC had a hard time keeping its 8 person statics together, imagine having to fill a 24 person non alliance raid.

[Zohar_Lahar]

In fairness, that sounded like a general statement. I can't be sure of intent, but my suspicion is that that wasn't meant to tell you how you think.

I understand his concerns. Past experience with FFXI showed me that "raiding community" is often controlling and manipulative (while not actually caring about the storyline).

[Teryaani]

I understand his concerns. Past experience with FFXI showed me that "raiding community" is often controlling and manipulative (while not actually caring about the storyline).

Maybe, and I have no doubt that he's reading this through a different lens than I am, but I didn't see that in the post. I do this too when I'm too close to an argument. Everything is read with a tone that may not be there. I've had to retract or edit on a re-read because of it. He may be right and there's a tone there, but I'm not hearing it.

[Sapphic]

I understand his concerns. Past experience with FFXI showed me that "raiding community" is often controlling and manipulative (while not actually caring about the storyline).

My main drive for FCoB was to see the story, after clearing turn 12 the first time none of us cared about the loot until we had all watched the story unfold. Also, contrary to belief, most raiders are more patient than many who do not raid. As you have to be patient whilst running progression, it's a necessary talent XD Otherwise you would just explode from all the wipes from learning the fight.