Current State of End-Game Contents - A Blog Post from A Japanese Player

[Rosy]

That's how it is. Same with Zodiac. It's too hard to be worth the reward! Yet...if you're not doing coil for i100-110 weapons, people complain the lack of progression content.

No matter what a progression style game just won't appease everyone, and people fail to understand that that. If you're not going to do it, settle with 2nd best.

The Dev team can only do one of 2 things.
Slow down progression like Zoadiac or add more content to keep people progressing.

No...you see, that's where you are so wrong, and that's why today's players think that way. A game CAN (appease is the wrong word) satisfy everyone...there have been many games that cater to ALL playstyles, without making any one playstyle feel inferior or unable to continue, or unable to attempt end game. Yes the whole levelling process was a LOT longer, no racing to cap in a week or two, but once capped everyone could try (note the word try) anything at all in endgame, no lock outs, nothing to stop you bar of course gear and competence.

[Kerberon]

No...you see, that's where you are so wrong, and that's why today's players think that way. A game CAN (appease is the wrong word) satisfy everyone...there have been many games that cater to ALL playstyles, without making any one playstyle feel inferior or unable to continue, or unable to attempt end game. Yes the whole levelling process was a LOT longer, no racing to cap in a week or two, but once capped everyone could try (note the word try) anything at all in endgame, no lock outs, nothing to stop you bar of course gear and competence.

Please name a game that pleased everyone. I think that's pretty much impossible, this quote sums it up best.

"In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.”


― Douglas Adams, The Restaurant at the End of the Universe

That may be satire but it sums up gamers pretty well.

[gti443]

The recent interview though kinda hints that it isn't meant for casual and mainstream to complete and that it will ease up within the time for certain demographs as alternative methods for progression are introduced.

Yet that wont solve the issue of people being idle without much of a goal to accomplish that's rewarding.

I mean... you seem to be viewing it as very strict segments of the player base but the way the gear tracks are designed there's a lot of room (and even encouragement) for crossover; mechanics may not be eased to the extent that some are proposing but encounters that are balanced around i80 or even i90 gear do look a lot different when the majority of your group is i100 and up. That gear may be grindy in the case of something like the Zodiac questline, or capped like the majority of Soldiery armor and accessories, but if you've capped Soldiery since the start of 2.2 you should be looking at a full set of i100 gear right about now sans ring. That's a fairly substantial easing of difficulty on current content much less prior content over just 2 1/2 months, and that will continue as CT offers more options including tokens for i100 weapons, sands, oils, etc.

But I mean... the nature of the genre itself guarantees some kind of time commitment is going to be required - regardless of what kind of shift takes place - if you want the best the game has to offer.

[Rosy]

Please name a game that pleased everyone. I think that's pretty much impossible, this quote sums it up best. That may be satire but it sums up gamers pretty well.

I never saw or have seen people complain about games like UO and EQ and AC...but then as I stated the whole levelling system took a lot longer so we didn't have the boredom factor we have nowadays, when people rush to 50, clear all end game content then have "nothing" to do, or don't clear end game content and get frustrated In fact, those games didn't have an "end game" per se.

[Gormogon]

Please name a game that pleased everyone.

That's not what's being argued since my response to that would end up not only subjective but an opinion. Regardless...

There's a reason why Riot's League of Legends is such a success in comparison to Smite and DOTA 2, despite starting so small and having ended with such a massive playerbase and community and a small yet vocal toxic environment in low/mid elo.
There's also a reason why Blizzard's World of Wacraft went from such a big success that ended up losing nearly 5m subscribers, despite trying to make it up by easing content through LFR.

There's a way to draw a crowd to your game and there's a way to keep them hooked to the point they would ignore elitism, content they can't do because of lack of skill, and much more. It's all about understand the situation more than it is about mimicking it.

Currently at end-game every approach feels like a punishment. In which I'll repeat myself again.

Coil's difficulty relies too much on 1 shot mechanics.
Alternatives progression methods are turning into excessive grinds.
Content outside of Coil and CT aren't as rewarding as Coil and CT.

Those 3 issues can easily be tackled to appeal to both the hardcore and the casual crowd. Will it take time? Sure but having communication with the playerbase is what is key.

But I mean... the nature of the genre itself guarantees some kind of time commitment is going to be required - regardless of what kind of shift takes place - if you want the best the game has to offer.

Yes and time commitments can be made to be enjoyable instead of feeling like a job or a punishment for deciding to take a certain route that isn't Coil.

Personally though the best the game has to offer is so far away that I'm patient and lenient because of it. Yet if my expectations are met or surpassed only time can tell and I can't gauge it well when Square-Enix isn't willing to show the expansion or talk about what features we can expect.

[gti443]

There's also a reason why Blizzard's World of Wacraft went from such a big success that ended up losing nearly 5m subscribers, despite trying to make it up by easing content through LFR.

I can't really comment on LoL, but I am intrigued to hear your analysis on why WoW actually lost subscribers in the process of catering to a strictly casual demographic rather than gaining.

[Gormogon]

I can't really comment on LoL, but I am intrigued to hear your analysis on why WoW actually lost subscribers in the process of catering to a strictly casual demographic rather than gaining.

Because they did it an expansion to late as an apology. They ignored their playerbase for nearly two years. Then as people were starting to unsubscribe they tried to remedy it by introducing LFR. Then finally got around to firing the person responsible, Ghostcrawler, who is currently damaging Riot's LoL.

[Kerberon]

Because they did it an expansion to late as an apology. They ignored their playerbase for nearly two years. Then as people were starting to unsubscribe they tried to remedy it by introducing LFR. Then finally got around to firing the person responsible, Ghostcrawler, who is currently damaging Riot's LoL.

Ghostcrawler is finally gone? If I ever get bored here it might actually be worth going back.

[Gormogon]

Ghostcrawler is finally gone? If I ever get bored here it might actually be worth going back.

Yup he's finally gone.

Sadly the damage to everything I enjoyed, class wise is pretty much irreplaceable.

Warriors Arms spec change in BC
Death Knights Unholy spec change to corpse explosion and unholy blight in WotLK.