Current State of End-Game Contents - A Blog Post from A Japanese Player

[TheUltimate3]

Could a EQ game even survive anymore?

Serious question and I know the term "survive" is a loaded one because in theory a game could survive just fine with 100,000 players if it was cost effective.

But can a MMO survive the budget required to make them nowadays on the EQ model. I've skimmed this thread for a few days and people bring up the MMOs of old, but could those MMOs of old survive this new era of the genre, or is everyone just thinking wistfully of the past?

[gornotck]

Could a EQ game even survive anymore?

Serious question and I know the term "survive" is a loaded one because in theory a game could survive just fine with 100,000 players if it was cost effective.

But can a MMO survive the budget required to make them nowadays on the EQ model. I've skimmed this thread for a few days and people bring up the MMOs of old, but could those MMOs of old survive this new era of the genre, or is everyone just thinking wistfully of the past?

Everquest and Everquest 2 both survive to this day, sort of. So I believe the answer is 'yes', but it won't attract the same toxic people as so-called Current Generation MMOs do. Entirely different toxic culture, with entirely different toxic goals.
What I find interesting about this debacle thread is that no one, or almost no one, has even suggested things like skill chains and the Battle Regime systems or other player-based methods of combatting and disabling enemies.
They just boil it down to mechanics versus gear, then throw around buzzwords and act as if everything is perfect forever, or would be perfect forever if they'd only just listen to reason (of which none existed).
You absolutely should be able to put together a group of random people through duty finder or party finder and have a reasonable expectation of success. You absolutely should be able to get through if most people know how to play their job, not their boss. You absolutely should be able to over gear for a fight as it gets older, making it quantifiably easier in every way.

You absolutely should be talking and communicating with your party and not treating them as accessories to your murder.

[Melithea]

Could a EQ game even survive anymore?

Everquest and Everquest 2 both survive to this day, sort of.

It's really hard to find recent and accurate numbers, but from a little investigating EQ active subscription numbers look something like this.

2004: 550,000
2007: 175,000
2010: 100,000
2014: ???

By way of comparison, FFXI had 350,000 in 2010 and XIV: ARR currently has more subscriptions than EQ ever had. Now, I'm all for ARR becoming more fun, but people saying that they miss EQ and if ARR doesn't return to the days of EQ it's going to DIE~! really need to realize that EQ was a different game from a different time, and if we're talking from a purely financial/subscription perspective, SE sure as hell doesn't need to take any advice from Everquest.

By the way, people have suggested skillchains and stuff like that be brought back. Maybe not in this thread, but people have been asking for things like that here and there since launch. I don't remember if there was ever an official answer, but this strikes me as the perfect example of the kind of solution that it might be a really good idea to throw back out there and blow it up until it can't be ignored.

[Grizzlebeard]

By way of comparison, FFXI had 350,000 in 2010 and XIV: ARR currently has more subscriptions than EQ ever had.

Try and remember that EQ existed in an MMO vacuum. Hardly anyone in the world knew what an MMORPG was let alone played one. The potential subscription base for MMOs back then was significantly smaller than now and Sony Online Entertainment (SoE) were never amazing at promotion, or Verant for that matter. By that standard, FFXIV's subscription level is laughable compared to that of WoW's. When EQ: Next launches we'll see a more realistic indication of what EQ subscription numbers would have been in the current marketplace.

SE sure as hell doesn't need to take any advice from Everquest.

Were it not for EQ there would have been no WoW, no FFXI, and ultimately no FFXIV. As for taking advice, FFXI was so heavily influenced by EQ it's hilarious to feel S-E have nothing to learn from SoE.

[Melithea]

As for taking advice, FFXI was so heavily influenced by EQ it's hilarious to feel S-E have nothing to learn from SoE.

And in terms of playerbase XIV is more successful than XI ever was.

I never said that!!

Then I wasn't quoting you? Consider it a paraphrase of the combined positions of "Everyone is getting bored and leaving" and "This is why the original MMOs were more fun/better than ARR".

When EQ: Next launches we'll see a more realistic indication of what EQ subscription numbers would have been in the current marketplace.

Yes, but at the moment this is pure speculation.

Honestly, I thought leveling in ARR should have taken longer than it did, for example. Not as long as it did in FFXI though, which I started playing when Rise of the Zilart was released and a year later my highest job was only level ~55 (IIRC). And I was an avid player. Can you imagine ARR right now if the average player today was under level 36?

Let's be really, really careful with the nostalgia goggles and stay focused on ways to add depth to the battle system. Your masochistic romanticism over corpse runs and leveling down would drive off more players than Titan EX ever could. Yes, the community left might be a little closer, and that would be a natural result of having a much smaller community. But at what cost?

[Rosy]

It's really hard to find recent and accurate numbers, but from a little investigating EQ active subscription numbers look something like this.

2004: 550,000
2007: 175,000
2010: 100,000
2014: ???

By way of comparison, FFXI had 350,000 in 2010 and XIV: ARR currently has more subscriptions than EQ ever had. Now, I'm all for ARR becoming more fun, but people saying that they miss EQ and if ARR doesn't return to the days of EQ it's going to DIE~! really need to realize that EQ was a different game from a different time, and if we're talking from a purely financial/subscription perspective, SE sure as hell doesn't need to take any advice from Everquest. By the way, people have suggested skillchains and stuff like that be brought back. Maybe not in this thread, but people have been asking for things like that here and there since launch. I don't remember if there was ever an official answer, but this strikes me as the perfect example of the kind of solution that it might be a really good idea to throw back out there and blow it up until it can't be ignored.

I never said that!!

[Velhart]

Could a EQ game even survive anymore?

Serious question and I know the term "survive" is a loaded one because in theory a game could survive just fine with 100,000 players if it was cost effective.

But can a MMO survive the budget required to make them nowadays on the EQ model. I've skimmed this thread for a few days and people bring up the MMOs of old, but could those MMOs of old survive this new era of the genre, or is everyone just thinking wistfully of the past?

Its not to say a game couldn't succeed using EQ as inspiration for their game play. With how MMO's are today, if you are a developer making that game, you kind of have to take with a grain of salt that this particular taste in game play you are only going to have a niche community, which will likely compose mostly of hardcore MMO vets looking for a familiar experience with the past. You are definitely not appealing to a large scale. So you have to make a budget and a sub/F2P system that is very well built and makes sense. Investors usually don't want to put money into that type of game unless it is a more known IP. Basically don't have high expectations unless the developers found a way to keep it traditional and revolutionize the aspect, which is doubtful.

[Zarzak]

Could a EQ game even survive anymore?

Serious question and I know the term "survive" is a loaded one because in theory a game could survive just fine with 100,000 players if it was cost effective.

But can a MMO survive the budget required to make them nowadays on the EQ model. I've skimmed this thread for a few days and people bring up the MMOs of old, but could those MMOs of old survive this new era of the genre, or is everyone just thinking wistfully of the past?

EQ is still going strong. Last 2 expansions sucked I'll admit (they tried out the "modern" MMO style of 3 month release intervals... it was horrible) But the expansion releasing this Fall is supposed to go back to the 1 per year release model.