Current State of End-Game Contents - A Blog Post from A Japanese Player

[Yukiko]

That could certainly be a possible "solution" in the future. Allow people to do content in a way that's reduced versus normal, but with the end rewards being lesser in quality/quantity/significance/non-existent. But it doesn't address the fact that as the JP blogger had mentioned, there is a concern as to the existent fragility of content. Making an easier mode probably wouldn't eliminate the chance someone messing up will ruin any/all progress done. Heck, if that factor was eliminated, then why would you need 8 party members? To pass content despite 50% of the group being dead for a prolonged while is laughable at best.

You remember older FF games?
4 Members, hard Boss hitting with AoE -> 3 Members down
Tank survived using Item to revive healer
Healer using Revive while Tank using Item to groupheal
Healer Revive (if mass revive then doing Wall) while Tank is using Item again groupheal (or reviving the other Damage Dealer depending on which Boss you are fighting)
Healer doing Wall (if wall already casted then hastga or doing now grouphealing) -> tank (mostly the hero or best equipped in group) begins with limit (he survived and is now in enraged mode) while Damage Dealer is casting some Spells or Attacks (or reviving the last member, supporting the group with silencing enemy or such...)

The point is: You can come back even when one (or all 3) messed up, as long as one player is alive there is HOPE... not so in FFXIV
Why is that sort of thing fun? Because when doing that you can not do Damage to the Boss and the game becomes more intense, its becoming deeper with each "turn" (turn does not mean Boss is waiting untill you do something, it just means you are now on the move)... That way Bossfights sometimes needed more than 4 hours to beat and with each attack it was like struggling, but still with HOPE... I miss that, in FFXIV we have: avoid it or wipe it !

Its my opinion, but SE is relying too much on AoE and avoid movement to keep players busy. Maybe because they fear the bad reply about 1 button smash we had in 1.x...

[Altaeciana]

But it makes sense from a logistical standpoint. You entered as a team, so you should be able to finish as a team. If you needed only one person to keep things going and pass content, is that not called "solo play?"

Then the current concern should be to make content soloable.

That is no different than entering a random battle with 4 party members, but three of which are already dead. Your point in referencing the old FF games is moot here.

[Yukiko]

please reread...
Next Hit will kill your hero, you can not clear content solo, i dont get your point, sorry!

[Gormogon]

Maybe because they fear the bad reply about 1 button smash we had in 1.x...

Personally I feel like they believe that depth and mastery equates artificial difficulty. Especially with the outcry of "make it more difficult". The way they explained Brutal version "complexity" already emphasizes that and I'm glad I grew out of desiring challenging content since it was a pointless headache.

I found a lot of fights pre coil to be way more memorable and have way more depth than the fights in Coil even the fights in CT were more memorable and had more depth than T4 and T5.

[Rosy]

You remember older FF games?
4 Members, hard Boss hitting with AoE -> 3 Members down
Tank survived using Item to revive healer
Healer using Revive while Tank using Item to groupheal
Healer Revive (if mass revive then doing Wall) while Tank is using Item again groupheal (or reviving the other Damage Dealer depending on which Boss you are fighting)
Healer doing Wall (if wall already casted then hastga or doing now grouphealing) -> tank (mostly the hero or best equipped in group) begins with limit (he survived and is now in enraged mode) while Damage Dealer is casting some Spells or Attacks (or reviving the last member, supporting the group with silencing enemy or such...)

(recluctantly snipped because of yet another modern day restriction)...

Thank you so much for hitting the nail on the head...I've been racking my brains as to what is different from endgame in FFXIV to all the other mmos I've played.

It's the fact that there is NO RECOVERY OPTIONS AT ALL.

In older games raiding was fun...hard work...stressful, but rewarding when you eventually, through many of the skills you talked about, beat the boss. I actually remember sitting there with the sweat dripping down my face, my fingers hurting, my eyes tired, just from the sheer effort of using everything we had to recover.

BECAUSE WE WERE ABLE TO RECOVER....using skill, forward thinking, potions, food etc.etc.

I also remember the corpse runs in EQ....going to bed when the birds were up and singing because it had taken me two hours to drag all the corpses to the entrance for guildies to recover theirs the next day PLANE OF FEAR!! It was teamwork at its very best, where you could actually play with guildies (instead of this stupid "static" idea), where players who weren't good at dodging...not that there was much dodging back then, still had skills to assist their team.

Where we had to actually beat other guilds to even get a boss! and hope we didn't see them rushing past us as we were clearing...but of course that was in the days before "instances" and the sterile atmosphere that brings with it.

[Grizzlebeard]

I also remember the corpse runs in EQ....going to bed when the birds were up and singing because it had taken me two hours to drag all the corpses to the entrance for guildies to recover theirs the next day PLANE OF FEAR!! It was teamwork at its very best, where you could actually play with guildies (instead of this stupid "static" idea), where players who weren't good at dodging...not that there was much dodging back then, still had skills to assist their team.

Where we had to actually beat other guilds to even get a boss! and hope we didn't see them rushing past us as we were clearing...but of course that was in the days before "instances" and the sterile atmosphere that brings with it.

I want to hug you right now.

Fear and Hate break-ins are some of my most enduring memories from EQ. Entering in to those zones the player actually felt a sense of nervous dread and exhilaration. It's been a long time since I've felt that in an MMO and certainly at no point in FFXIV have I felt anything approaching the level of excitement I experienced even just exploring zones like Chardok with friends. The dungeons in FFXIV are instanced and bland, they may look pretty but we're on rails... there's no way to explore like you could in FFXI. I remember wandering around Sea Serpent Grotto for hours learning the lay of the land so I could get to Charybdis with my eyes closed or take newbies on their ninja scroll runs.

This game lacks any real sense of wonder or danger for me sadly and judging by people's responses across a number of forums many people feel the same. Can an expansion fix the inherent design ethos with this game? I personally don't think it can.

[Clavaat]

-snip-

The big difference: You were all of those characters at once.

You didn't have to make a plan and make sure everyone knew what to do. You knew the plan already, you knew what you had to do already. That's how you played the game. What if someone from Tanzania didn't know the plan and died? That's ok, because you that person didn't affect your game. This is an MMO. It isn't your game or Bob from Tanzania's game. It's our game. We work together. That's the challenge.

Memorizing mechanics will not win you a fight. Being coordinated, and knowing what to do when things don't always go by the plan will win you a fight. That takes leadership and coordination on top of understanding your Job and what role it fills and how to do it to the best of your ability for all scenario. Your Party becomes more important, because you have to know them, and know what the individual's strengths and weaknesses are. And, despite what you may think, you can recover from a lot of scenarios with a simple backup plan.

[Kuwagami]

Memorizing mechanics will not win you a fight. Being coordinated, and knowing what to do when things don't always go by the plan will win you a fight. That takes leadership and coordination on top of understanding your Job and what role it fills and how to do it to the best of your ability for all scenario. Your Party becomes more important, because you have to know them, and know what the individual's strengths and weaknesses are.

that would mean that PUGs have no chance to ever win a high-end fight. Memorization plays a huge part, you can't ignore it


Edit :

I beg to differ. If the people in said PUG have a designated leader, or actually communicate politely and effectively, they still have a possibility of winning. This is much more difficult to come to terms on with a PUG, but it is possible nonetheless. Essentially that would come down to the whole "toxic community" argument. And I only meant memorization is not the only factor as many seem to be saying/thinking. The bigger factor is being able to adapt when the pattern doesn't always apply (phase is a little early/late, some moves overlap, you make an error in judgment, etc).

I see the point, nvm

[Clavaat]

that would mean that PUGs have no chance to ever win a high-end fight. Memorization plays a huge part, you can't ignore it

I beg to differ. If the people in said PUG have a designated leader, or actually communicate politely and effectively, they still have a possibility of winning. This is much more difficult to come to terms on with a PUG, but it is possible nonetheless. Essentially that would come down to the whole "toxic community" argument. And I only meant memorization is not the only factor as many seem to be saying/thinking. The bigger factor is being able to adapt when the pattern doesn't always apply (phase is a little early/late, some moves overlap, you make an error in judgment, etc).

[OSUBuckeye4]

I beg to differ. If the people in said PUG have a designated leader, or actually communicate politely and effectively, they still have a possibility of winning. This is much more difficult to come to terms on with a PUG, but it is possible nonetheless. Essentially that would come down to the whole "toxic community" argument. And I only meant memorization is not the only factor as many seem to be saying/thinking. The bigger factor is being able to adapt when the pattern doesn't always apply (phase is a little early/late, some moves overlap, you make an error in judgment, etc).

This is all great in theory, but, you only get 60 minutes in Primals and 90 minutes in dungeons.

You're basically suggesting that people que up for DF, enter a dungeon and spend time voting on a leader and getting to know each others strengths/weaknesses and setting up backup plans. At the end of it, everyone goes their seperate ways.

That's very noble and whimsicle... but, it's not realistic with the current limitations that SE puts on their content.