Current State of End-Game Contents - A Blog Post from A Japanese Player

[Iriadysa]

Aaaaand let's begin the game today with:

Fights in a MMORPG should be based on your character vs enemies. This game focus way to much on you and your connection vs mechanics. It's more like S-E wants this game to be like a action/adventure/shooter kind of game, since stats, gear and abilities/magic has so limited impact.

I have a hard time understanding why anyone would play a game that isn't focused on their own accomplishments. When you ask for a game based "on your character", what you are asking is for a game that plays itself. Don't fool yourself here. In this game, when you decide to execute an ability that is you making the decision. The number that pops right after is not you.

FFXIV has a straight, easy to understand gearing system. Stats are clear and there's no convoluted combinations you can pull off (side note: and if you could, chances are someone would already do the math for you and publish it as Best Setup For X Job, defeating the point). So in a game like this you are not the numbers your abilities land for, you are the decisions you take and the reaction you apply.

You are not awesome because you did a 1k dmg attack, you are awesome because you landed that attack just as you side stepped between landslide and bombs and didn't even get hit.

The OP's post only scratches the surface of the problems in the game. Here is what is needed to fix things, IMHO:

I'm going to take your post and explain why this would not fix the things that the OP complains about. Some of your proposals will make the game more fun for me, but at the same time will make the game harder unless, of course, you make them so trivial that they become irrelevant.

• No content should be 'dumbed down' with ham-fisted tools like the "echo buff". Doing so diminishes the achievements of those who worked hard to conquer it, and it heaps condescension on those that haven't.

Right, echo makes fights silly. T4 is probably the highest offender I can think of. And yet, this is actually what the OP is defending...

• No boss fight should be 100% scripted -- Every Boss should use AI to determine the majority of their actions -- based on their own internal cool-downs, triggers, and the behavior of the players.

Absolutely. Titan should toss WotL on people that are surrounding a healer so that the healer is trapped, or use smart patterns so that there's almost no escape for you. He should always aim landslide towards the most difficult to dodge point. He should analyze a tank's cooldowns and decide to combo their asses when there's no self buffs on. He should gaol the healer with the highest MP while leaving the one with low MP to heal some massive stomp damage. Twintania should delay death sentence until the tank has no CDs up and target the closest person with her dread knights. And so on.

Would be pretty awesome, really, if the monsters had some real AI that would react to the players and I've asked for this since my time in FFXI, however, I ask it for a simple reason: it would make fights harder. And again, that's not what the OP wants. No amount of gear or echo would make these fights easier either, which is another of OP's points.

• Mainstream boss attacks may inflict insti-kill, or perma-death, but NOT BOTH simultaneously.

I see little problem with this and I believe it's a matter of taste. Permanent death is a bitch, but it's what we pay for how easy it is to get someone else back on track after they die. It makes death count. The alternative is to make getting people up mid fight much harder... which it was in FFXIV before they gave players an invincible time as they got back up.

• Every boss' stats and drop rates should be together modified from a range (eg. +/-10%) that is randomly applied each encounter.

Not really seeing the point of this. Plus, with the easy entry and exit system we have, people would just go in, probe the boss, determine if the random buff/nerf is -10% or +10% and exit again and again till they get a nerfed one.

• Every boss should have a 1~2 extra abilities (from a pool of ~4) that are randomly assigned to it each encounter.

I'm game for this. It will also make it even harder ^^

• Every boss and FATE boss should have an ultra-rare (~0.5%) drop, even if the drop is just vanity.

We have that in some fights and it's not very useful to get people to repeat them at this point. All primals drop pets at low rate, Leviathan on top of that drops mirrors and Ramuh will drop rare weapons. While a nice addition, it sadly doesn't work well to make people keep going into this content after they realize the low drop rate is like winning the lottery.

• Bosses and FATE Bosses should enter 'desperation mode' when their HP falls below an assigned ranged of 10~15%. During this mode, they may become faster, more powerful, erratic and/or gain new attacks.

Or they could do it like in TERA where monsters would enrage during the fight at different HP intervals. It was pretty awesome, because it made things so much more difficult! (Unless you fought teraliths... those are actually easier enraged <.<).
But sadly, I don't think the OP actually wants this... imagine Titan simply deciding to cast a faster landslide or faster WotL! Oh, the rage.

"Not only is this lag based, but it's also unfair that he randomly enrages and I can't prepare for it!"

• The vertical gear system should only exist between level caps... as gear reaches the cap, it should branch out and become horizontal providing players with a variety of options for builds.

Honestly, there's no way they can keep this system of making previous gear infinitely obsolete. I hope this crap ends by the time they rise the level cap with (I hope) the expansion.

• Old content should have its party number/build requirements reduced or elimitated when new replacement content is released. (with the obvious exception of CT or other alliance raids)

Meh, this is one of the few ideas on the OP that I find "ok". I don't see the complete point of it, but it would allow people with non multiples of 8 to actually help each other while at the same time making the encounter easier for themselves. The main problem I see with it is that it could backfire into becoming the de facto way of doing things instead of an alternative, which could have a heavy impact on the game.

• If server load is a problem, instanced content should be soft-gated through a variety of methods. Some should have cooldown timers, some should require farming entry items, some use currency (eg GC seals) to enter, etc etc...

• Standard Dungeons should feature an 'open-world exploration option' where players can casually enter and mine, harvest, treasure hunt and encounter FATE bosses which drop some thematic loot.

Whatever I guess. Someone may want that.

• Job skills and Limit Breaks should be revamped to reward players who coordinate attacks and actions.

The Limit Break system is a huge missed opportunity. I have no idea why it's not a party based coordination attack. In fact, when I first tried LB I naturally assumed it was a party based thing. Yes, it was a huge let down.

• (a personal wish) New explorable zones.. more open, with higher lvl monsters that pose a serious agrro threat to players

Imagine the rage. We already have threads asking to remove weight from aggroing on your chocobo.
"Why do I need a party to go through this zone?! All I want to do is reach the primal's spawn point! FIX NOW WTF"

Not only will these changes make the game better, but they will make the player community better as well. In FFXI, even PUG players would often /comfort someone who lost a BNCM battle and they would donate some of their own winnings to lessen the loss.

Randomness and AI add another important factor to the outcome of a battle. To put it bluntly: Without randomness in battles, players can (and will) only heap blame each other if they lose.

So the objective is to blame the RNG AI for your wipe instead? That would cause even more complains than what we have now.

As I said at the start of this, I'm all game for a better AI that makes encounters less predictable and more reactive. And, funny enough, this would make the game much harder and more "latency dependent" (aka, reaction dependent)... unless they make all these skills so irrelevant and weak that you can eat all of them with your i100 gear on an i80 encounter, which is actually the cornerstone of OP's proposal (i.e. echo and gear allowing you to bypass mechanics you cannot deal with yourself). At which point fights would actually become much more boring.

----

So what exactly is my point with this? Simple:

I believe people have not really read and understood the OP. You saw what happened with that guy quoting the EC video: he had clearly not understood much of it.

What I believe is happening in this thread is that there's a bunch of people stuck at higher tier content, namely Titan Ex, Twintania and Coil 2, which would like to do this content now but cannot, thus they want it nerfed. These people saw a relatively well written post that included this idea somewhere and without truthfully understanding what it says they decided to make it their Avatar of Light. But all they are doing is following a false prophet.

[Melithea]

As I said at the start of this, I'm all game for a better AI that makes encounters less predictable and more reactive. And, funny enough, this would make the game much harder and more "latency dependent" (aka, reaction dependent)... unless they make all these skills so irrelevant and weak that you can eat all of them with your i100 gear on an i80 encounter, which is actually the cornerstone of OP's proposal (i.e. echo and gear allowing you to bypass mechanics you cannot deal with yourself). At which point fights would actually become much more boring.

This right here is the crux. People don't seem to realize that the "solutions" they are asking for will have harsh consequences. They will either:

1. Make fights much, MUCH harder than they already are by requiring you to be even more reactive and giving you less ability to plan ahead.

2. Make fights much, MUCH more boring than they already are as people simply overgear them and ignore strategy entirely (like they do right now with Turns 1 and 2).

Many of the suggestions are not bad, you just need to think through to where they lead the game as you have proposed them.

Honestly I think the best suggestion that I've seen in this thread or any other is to introduce a casual/easy/story mode to balance brutal mode, and let people feel like they are still progressing something, kind of. There are still many problems with this.

1. It won't solve anybody's boredom.
2. People will complain if it drops loot. People will complain if it doesn't drop loot.
3. It won't be "fun".
4. It won't prepare you for the more difficult content that lies beyond. You'll simply be relegated to lower class player status until you're ready to take off the training wheels.

[Gormogon]

snip

That's because everyone has their own opinion in regards to handling "difficulty" and "depth".

Brutal should appeal to the hardcore elitist that desire scripted fights where you need encyclopedic knowledge to do basic functions where everything one shots you if you can't do the perfect dance. Difficulty is high, everyone needs a near BiS set to compete, rewards will be given once you complete all of the fights by the end of the week. All players that complete all turns are given the chance to get the Brutal set. (Think of the Primal Focus quest)

Normal coil should appeal to the progressive mainstream player. There will still be one shot mechanics and you'll still need to follow rotation but it will be doable as time passes by with gear (No echo until the next major patch). Grants the Normal Allagan or High Allagan set piece dedicated for that content.

Easy mode coil should appeal to the casual and progressive player. Echo can be applied from the start at the cost of a treasure coffer (until the next major patch). Yet gear is that equivalent to the token gear. In our current case that would be the ilvl 100 Weather set and the weekly lockout still applies. Also the drop rate to upgrade the weathered gear is much lower than normal coil.

Whichever version you do you'll be locked into it for that week. (until it gets removed and put on DF which only applies to Normal and Easy mode.)

Personally I wouldn't want it to come to this but it should be an acceptable compromise to even the hardcore elitist.

Can someone explain to me why it's bad to have the ability to overgear content?

Because elitists hate the notion that you can do something you wouldn't be able to do otherwise because unlike the people that cleared it you didn't "work" for it. Then again the notion is hilarious since they use videos and guides for everything. Yet the team is catering more and more to the hardcore elitist crowd than they are the rest of their player base and Final Fantasy does kind of have a reputation for their design approaches to end up very grinding and sadistic in nature, no offense Square-Enix.

[Clavaat]

Because elitists hate the notion that you can do something you wouldn't be able to do otherwise because unlike the people that cleared it you didn't "work" for it. Then again the notion is hilarious since they use videos and guides for everything. Yet the team is catering more and more to the hardcore elitist crowd than they are the rest of their player base and Final Fantasy does kind of have a reputation for content but very grinding and sadistic on their design approach.

Sorry but this is a bit extreme to me. I think we need to take a step back and think here.

For starters, as I've said in other posts, I don't give up on members of a Party. I know Player X and Player Y can dodge/adapt to nearly anything, but the challenge comes from leading everyone to follow the same thing. That's been a common argument throughout this thread.

With good leadership, I feel a group can complete anything. Player Z has trouble dodging Divebombs. Instead of blaming, pointing fingers for losses, etc, a good leader would recognize this and work with the player on an individual level to get through it. Like anything else in life, with enough practice, anyone can become good at something.

Is that ideal hardcore elitist? Maybe...I don't know. If you get to T9 using a methodology like that, I'd like to think that no, it isn't. And I believe you could get through most, if not all content that way, despite unforgiving mechanics.

Overgearing content runs the risk of none of that mattering. What I described, I supposed can be construed as "work", but honestly, I find it fun and engaging to know your strengths and weaknesses, and work together to figure them out as opposed to giving up.

Variety in content is appreciated; having content that is more simple tank and spank, like pretty much everything in FFXI, is fine. I don't think it should be rewarded as highly as something that took coordination and adaptation (even if you know the fight inside and out, things can happen).

I say none of this to attack you or anything, but I think if you take it from a different perspective, you'd feel better about the situation at hand. And maybe I'm weird for thinking this way. But at the end of the day, I'm enjoying myself with what is given to me currently in terms of the game.

[Gormogon]

Is that ideal hardcore elitist?

From my perspective it is. Since I experienced it first hand in WoW the moment raiding required more than half the group to do the perfect dance. When it took up to 10-25% of the group to carry the rest it was never horrible since players could go months on attempts and keep it lighthearted and that was the case up until the end of WotLK for the exception of a couple of raids. Once Cataclysm came around and when doing fights that required 60% of the group to pull their weight it turn that lighthearted atmosphere into a very toxic environment with constant drama.

As far as FFXIV goes from 2.0 to 2.2 I've experience that growth in toxicity and drama. I rarely ever see 5 wipes without drama. All it takes is for and elitist to see 1 bad thing no matter how minor and I already see them giving their condescending 2 cents even during the middle of a fight.

Overgearing content runs the risk of none of that mattering. What I described, I supposed can be construed as "work", but honestly, I find it fun and engaging to know your strengths and weaknesses, and work together to figure them out as opposed to giving up.

That is where the issue lies in general.

So what if content becomes easier over time through acquiring better gear? It's not like the hardcore elitists are going no I don't need it and they stash it on their retainers until the next coil is released.

To me the overall circumstance just reeks of hypocrisy, yet whatever. Why not compromise and seek to have separate alternatives that appeases the hardcore and/or eltists, the mainstream, and the casuals, over having this constant drama?

[Clavaat]

To me the overall circumstance just reeks of hypocrisy, yet whatever. Why not compromise and seek to have separate alternatives that appeases the hardcore and/or eltists, the mainstream, and the casuals, over having this constant drama?

That was the point I was trying to make, though. If anyone is able to do it, albeit at different times than others, then isn't that appeasing everyone? I'm not arguing that over time, content becoming easier due to better gear is a bad thing. But the timing of releasing this content is important. I think it would nullify the experience of teambuilding and leadership if content were able to simply be out-geared when it's released, or shortly afterward. But the way it is now, I am satisfied with, in that regard. Titan HM used to be one of the biggest roadblocks, now no one even talks about him, because gear and echo have made it a fairly easy fight, even if a few members die.

I never played WoW. The only MMO I played seriously was FFXI, so I guess I have a bit of a different perspective when it comes to what this content is. This stuff is kind of new to me. I know within my static, we have our method of doing content, and in general it has worked to keep everyone happy, even if we're not clearing the highest possible content. Maybe down the road it will end in conflict, I have no way of actually knowing that, but for at least the past 6 months, barring a few bumps in the road, I've had a overall positive experience.

[Gormogon]

That was the point I was trying to make, though. If anyone is able to do it, albeit at different times than others, then isn't that appeasing everyone?...But the way it is now, I am satisfied with, in that regard. Titan HM used to be one of the biggest roadblocks, now no one even talks about him, because gear and echo have made it a fairly easy fight, even if a few members die.

If there was content outside of coil.

Yet currently the answer will be no, since they aren't progressing and there's no content outside of coil equally rewarding. Having to wait 2-3 months if not another 2-3 on top of that to progress is in no way a motivational builder.

Those that aren't satisfied may not stick around for it to finally be able to clear the content and they wont really be moving on and keep progressing steadily if coil becomes an equivalent roadblock.

I never played WoW. The only MMO I played seriously was FFXI, so I guess I have a bit of a different perspective when it comes to what this content is. This stuff is kind of new to me. I know within my static, we have our method of doing content, and in general it has worked to keep everyone happy, even if we're not clearing the highest possible content. Maybe down the road it will end in conflict, I have no way of actually knowing that, but for at least the past 6 months, barring a few bumps in the road, I've had a overall positive experience.

I'm gonna keep it vague to word it as nicely as possible. Keep an open mind since there's more situations that happen outside your static in and out of your own server.

You just asked for three tiers of content that all appeal to "progression", including a mode that basically hands out free gear. Well, soldiery tomes already fill that purpose.

Are you seriously suggesting that FFXIV encounters should be tuned so that 2 people can carry the other 6?

It already does, and none of the "hardcores" are complaining about that. It's the casuals who are impatiently complaining that a couple fights aren't already an auto-win (and may never be. What a horrible situation if some fights still make you dodge!).

This is still an aside to the topic of Second Coil being boring to some people, however. I don't see how taking effort and strategy completely out of the fight makes it less boring, though.

1.) Keep jumping to that conclusion that people that would desire a Coil 2 Ez mode should be as easy if not easier than HM dungeons. Being less rewarding for the sake of being less rewarding is sure gonna motivate casuals to step up their game.
2.) No but continue to spin those words. I'm referring to leniency and change of atmosphere when you start forcing more and more players to play at a high standard.
3.) If you want to neglect what's already been pointed out for the sake of pointing fingers at figures so be it. I ain't forcing you to be empathetic.
4.) Superiority complex much?

[Melithea]

Brutal should appeal to the hardcore elitist
Normal coil should appeal to the progressive mainstream player.
Easy mode coil should appeal to the casual and progressive player.

You just asked for three tiers of content that all appeal to "progression", including a mode that basically hands out free gear. Well, soldiery tomes already fill that purpose.

When it took up to 10-25% of the group to carry the rest it was never horrible

Are you seriously suggesting that FFXIV encounters should be tuned so that 2 people can carry the other 6?

So what if content becomes easier over time through acquiring better gear?

It already does, and none of the "hardcores" are complaining about that. It's the casuals who are impatiently complaining that a couple fights aren't already an auto-win (and may never be. What a horrible situation if some fights still make you dodge!).

This is still an aside to the topic of Second Coil being boring to some people, however. I don't see how taking effort and strategy completely out of the fight makes it less boring, though.