Current State of End-Game Contents - A Blog Post from A Japanese Player

[OSUBuckeye4]

So wait, let me get this straight.

You have no problem with the current difficulty level of Coil. Your problem is that this content gives highly skilled players first dibs on high level gear and a 2-minute cutscene. Your #1 solution to fixing the perceived problem with Coil is to take away meaningful rewards from the players who are good enough to clear it while it is still challenging.

This is quite possibly the most selfish, hateful, jealous thing I have ever seen posted on these forums, and that's saying a lot.

Please, please tell me I'm wrong and correct the way you have presented yourself. If this is really the attitude of everyone complaining, god help us.

No, you got it completely crooked... and wow, hyperbole much?

Did you even read my entire post, or did you just copy one sentence and start hyperventilating?


I'm saying that the problem with the way SE is releasing new end-game content, is that they are hiding it behind other content that a large portion of the playerbase can't complete.

They release Moogle EX, but you have to defeat the other EX's to even play it. Ditto with Leviathan.

Nothing frustrates people more than having a developer say, "we released this awesome cutting edge new battle" and then when the player goes looking for it, it's behind another battle that they have died on a million (hyperbole) times because they either have a bad connection, or they can't find 7 other people who can perform the script without dying.


They put lore/storyline content at the end of Coil1 and 2, but you can't even get to Coil 2 without defeating the first Coil, which many players who are not in statics can't.

This reasponse of, "yea, well, I play 8 hours a day and I've been able to beat it with PF so everyone else should have to do that as well" is absurd. It's a video game. Many of us have families and jobs and can only play a few hours a week. This notion of, "if you can't put in 20-40 hours a week, you don't deserve to see the content" is ridiculous.

We're not asking for the top end gear, we're just asking for the chance to experience the content and see these "cutting edge" mechanics in action. Many of us can't even do that.

It frustrates people. I've watched FC members leave because of this. I think it's legitimate frustration as well. It's not, "I can't get my super overpowered sword so I'm going to quit over it", it's, "they put this awesome stuff out there, and I can't see it... obviously they don't care about me, so I'm leaving".

While that's not my mindset, I can understand someone who takes that approach.




I'm saying that they should EITHER

1) Release true end-game, ""only the best of the best will beat this", type content in the same fashion that they are releasing the Brutal mode content. Stand alone content that anyone can attempt... when/if you beat it, you get your reward. There's no further quests or storyline behind it.

2) Release more EX battles and require people to beat the pre-existing EX battles... but, put a "progression" or "story advancement" mode version in (minus the rewards given) that allow people to at least experience the awesome new battles and don't leave them feeling left out.


It doesn't mean that they need to pick one and use that method for everything. I'm saying that they should pick one of the two when deciding to drop a new battle or new content.

If it's going to be gated behind something else, then open the prior gate to the majority of the playerbase. Take away the reward if players use that new window that opens the content up, that's fine.

If you don't want it to be gated, then make it accessible to everyone.



Echo mode doesn't work when battles are full of insta-kill mechanics that people with bad connections can't get past.

[Melithea]

Did you even read my entire post, or did you just copy one sentence and start hyperventilating?

I read the whole post, I just don't quote the whole thing. Only the relevant/responsive/key part.

They release Moogle EX, but you have to defeat the other EX's to even play it. Ditto with Leviathan.

This is already going to be fixed in 3 weeks. That's why I've ignored it and stuck with addressing Coil. You should as well.

I'm saying that they should EITHER

1) Release true end-game, ""only the best of the best will beat this", type content in the same fashion that they are releasing the Brutal mode content. Stand alone content that anyone can attempt... when/if you beat it, you get your reward. There's no further quests behind it.

This is... slightly better. So you wouldn't care about beating T5 if you could enter Second Coil without clearing it, is what you're telling me. I don't see why you would even want to try harder content if you can't beat the easier content in front of it (don't bring up Titan, that's been addressed). Somehow I don't believe this is an actual solution or one that would make the majority of people happy.

[Anyssa]

-snip-

You're spot on. You'll never convince the trolls of the other side of the argument because they have underdeveloped empathetic skills. It's a large problem in society today.

With regards to statics - it's fine if they work for you, but for 3/4ths of the year they don't work for me because of work, family, scheduling issues, etc. I've had "statics" in games like DAoC, WoW, EQ2, etc., and I'm tired of them. Often times they're not the people you want to be around because the nice/funny/ordinary people are kicked out due to there being no wiggle room for mistakes. Then there's the issue of a set schedule that just does not work for me (like I said).

When are these mmos going to evolve in some fashion away from reserving content for the troll elitists and open things up for mainstream gamers? I thought FFXIV might be that mmo, but it doesn't seem so.

[Clavaat]

With regards to statics - it's fine if they work for you, but for 3/4ths of the year they don't work for me because of work, family, scheduling issues, etc. I've had "statics" in games like DAoC, WoW, EQ2, etc., and I'm tired of them. Often times they're not the people you want to be around because the nice/funny/ordinary people are kicked out due to there being no wiggle room for mistakes. Then there's the issue of a set schedule that just does not work for me (like I said).

See, to me that is not necessarily the idea of a static being poor, but poor leadership creating issues. The statics I've built were built around people I have fun with, of varying skill levels. I just don't give up on them. If an individual is having problems with a certain part, I will work with them to help them figure it out. It's never a "you're bad, goodbye" kind of thing.

As far as the scheduling goes, let me put it this way: Do you watch TV shows regularly, like a series? Try to think of a static that way and it becomes much less cumbersome. My fiance has been very busy with work and stuff for a few weeks, so she pretty doesn't play at all except for our practice nights. 2 days, ~2hours each a week. Sure, this isn't the fastest pace, but we're generally able to work this way and successfully cleared T5 last week after a few weeks' practice Like I said, maybe others have had very negative experiences, but I feel that a static actually encourages healthy playtimes and experiences with other players.

EDIT: Also, a leader should be responsible for finding the best time that works for everyone. If your schedule is a little more erratic, they should be malleable and work with that.

[Melithea]

You're spot on. You'll never convince the trolls of the other side of the argument because they have underdeveloped empathetic skills. It's a large problem in society today.

When are these mmos going to evolve in some fashion away from reserving content for the troll elitists and open things up for mainstream gamers? I thought FFXIV might be that mmo, but it doesn't seem so.

Just to make this perfectly clear: I'm not trolling and I'm not even "on the other side of the argument". I very deliberately staked out neutral ground and positioned myself as a non-hardcore, non-elitist who hasn't even cleared T6. My purpose here is to figure out exactly what changes people think need to be made. Because any changes made are obviously going to affect me, too. That's why I keep challenging people to be more clear, more specific, more detailed, and pointing out problems with their answers. It helps them refine their arguments.

So far, I don't feel like the proposed solutions are any better than the current situation. They're just different. They have pluses and minuses that haven't been demonstrated to be an overall positive.

People say they're getting frustrated with not being able to do that special 5% of the content in the game that is actually challenging, getting bored and leaving because there's nothing else to keep them occupied. So none of that entire 95% of the rest of the game is worth staying for either? Ask the hardcore Coil raiders what their play schedule is like. For a lot of them, it's log in for 3 hours, clear Coil, log out for 165 hours.

This is not an issue with the difficulty of one dungeon and one trial. This is an issue with an overall lack of content in the game because the game is still very young and content is limited for everyone. It's getting a lot better as time goes by. There's a LOT of stuff you haven't done, you're just not interested in doing it. Which is okay, but you can't blame the content and you can't blame one hard dungeon for that.

I've played this game daily since Closed Beta. I still have lots of stuff to do. There is a TON of content for mainstream gamers. This idea that because a small slice of content is "reserved for troll elitists" (for a few months until they make it easier) and somehow this is ruining the game and making everyone quit isn't just wrong, it's ridiculous.

[IgnisFatuus]

There's a LOT of stuff you haven't done, you're just not interested in doing it. Which is okay, but you can't blame the content and you can't blame one hard dungeon for that.

what is this magical content you speak of? grind the same dungeons for atma/novus/sold/myth/sbing? so much variety.

yes, i know there are other things to do, but it comes down to "do the same thing in a slighty different coat of paint".

[Clavaat]

-snip-

I think there is a misconception about content in general here. It could just be General Board being General Board, but I don't know anyone in my LS/FC who is actually bored or out of content. We run the endgame stuff at our pace statically, but the rest of the time we collect tomestones, atmas, books, sightseeing, RP, leveling alt jobs, crafting, gathering, gardening or pickup EX, HM's, BC. I don't know, I find all of that stuff very fun to do, but I can understand why others don't.

[Melithea]

what is this magical content you speak of? grind the same dungeons for atma/novus/sold/myth/sbing? so much variety.

yes, i know there are other things to do, but it comes down to "do the same thing in a slighty different coat of paint".

I think there is a misconception about content in general here. It could just be General Board being General Board, but I don't know anyone in my LS/FC who is actually bored or out of content. We run the endgame stuff at our pace statically, but the rest of the time we collect tomestones, atmas, books, sightseeing, RP, leveling alt jobs, crafting, gathering, gardening or pickup EX, HM's, BC. I don't know, I find all of that stuff very fun to do, but I can understand why others don't.

The fact that I got both of these replies in the same minute is hilarious beyond words.

[Clavaat]

The fact that I got both of these replies in the same minute is hilarious beyond words.

He actually had one I forgot about which was SBing :P

[Lemon8or]

I don't know anyone in my LS/FC who is actually bored or out of content. We run the endgame stuff at our pace statically, but the rest of the time we collect tomestones, atmas, books, sightseeing, RP, leveling alt jobs, crafting, gathering, gardening or pickup EX, HM's, BC. I don't know, I find all of that stuff very fun to do, but I can understand why others don't.

I happen to be one of those people that is getting bored actually. Besides turn 9, there's nothing that I can work on for this patch, well good thing 2.3 is coming but not many stuffs there neither. Tomestones? 1 expert roulette per day. Atmas? Books? Meh when I can have a legitimate shot at HA weapons. It's a boring grind. RP? Not my cup of tea. Leveling alt jobs? Crafting? Gathering? Look at my signature. EX? Cleared all, have everything from them except the Garuda/Titan/Ifrit ponies but farming parties for these EX fights usually fail so yeah.... A large number of people in my FC is growing bored as well and haven't logged in for days on end while we used to log in everyday with things to do.