Current State of End-Game Contents - A Blog Post from A Japanese Player

[Exstal]

I think the intention is cutting edge content isn't supposed to be faceroll easy. Which sadly means people who aren't exceptional players, will never win it.

[Rosy]

I think the intention is cutting edge content isn't supposed to be faceroll easy. Which sadly means people who aren't exceptional players, will never win it.

....and so players who aren't as "exceptional" as yourself will up and leave and all the exceptionals will find that there will be no more game Unlike years ago when there was little choice in the way of mmorpgs and devs could afford to not pump out so much content, and people stuck with a game for years...these days there are many more games out there, with 3 or 4 major titles arriving each year. More choice = people spread out over games, therefore developers have to listen to their bread and butter players...the not "exceptional" ones to keep enough subs coming in.

[Exstal]

....and so players who aren't as "exceptional" as yourself will up and leave and all the exceptionals will find that there will be no more game Unlike years ago when there was little choice in the way of mmorpgs and devs could afford to not pump out so much content, and people stuck with a game for years...these days there are many more games out there, with 3 or 4 major titles arriving each year. More choice = people spread out over games, therefore developers have to listen to their bread and butter players...the not "exceptional" ones to keep enough subs coming in.

I said "cutting edge". There is no reason that one needs to beat everything in the same patch it comes out. See how Binding Coil turns 1 and 2 were accessible by a decent amount of people in 2.1 with turns 4 and 5 mostly being reserved to statics? See how now it's farming those turns when a new Coil is out? That's how it should be. The ones who strive to be the best will complete the content as intended, and those who either don't want to or can't put in the time, won't. They'll just wait until it becomes more accessible.

And why do you care if they get best gear?
Do you make challenging content because the challenge or because you can show something to others with the intention "I am better than you"?

I am not saying its a good idea, i just point to that arrogance!
Gear should help to progress if you are not so skilled and not used as a reward for clearing something hard to clear...

It's an MMO. The point of challenging content is to be challenging. It's not for story, that's what single player games are for. I know I wouldn't do normal Coil if a theorectical easy Coil gave the same gear. Extra effort for same reward is a waste of time.

[Kuwagami]

It's an MMO. The point of challenging content is to be challenging. It's not for story, that's what single player games are for.

With that in mind, please explain me why Coil has a story behind it ? If it's not for the story, but only to be challenging, it should have no story behind it by taking your own words.

Or not be challenging at all.

[Nero]

With that in mind, please explain me why Coil has a story behind it ? If it's not for the story, but only to be challenging, it should have no story behind it by taking your own words.

Or not be challenging at all.

Because it is a Final Fantasy. Content, being it main or side, always has a Story behind it in a Final Fantasy. Coil is not needed for the Mainstory tho.

[Exstal]

With that in mind, please explain me why Coil has a story behind it ? If it's not for the story, but only to be challenging, it should have no story behind it by taking your own words.

Or not be challenging at all.

Side quests have some kind of reason to why you are there, no? That's why the hardest bosses aren't in the main story. It's so you can get most of the picture without being stuck on something unable to see the end.

[Kuwagami]

Because it is a Final Fantasy. Content, being it main or side, always has a Story behind it in a Final Fantasy. Coil is not needed for the Mainstory tho.

it was a rhetorical question...

Side quests have some kind of reason to why you are there, no? That's why the hardest bosses aren't in the main story. It's so you can get most of the picture without being stuck on something unable to see the end.

see above. I'd like to add that while not needed to follow the main storyline, Coil's lore is absolutely needed if you want to understand deeper the world you're wandering in. It adds a lot of important stuff to understand Bahamut and Carteneau's battle. It's just sad that people are gated away from that content


(but yeah, ez mode of Coil have already been proposed just for the story, and got trashed away because "why u want mah gear ?". While it was never asked that "story" coil should have any loot)

[Atreides]

(but yeah, ez mode of Coil have already been proposed just for the story, and got trashed away because "why u want mah gear ?". While it was never asked that "story" coil should have any loot)

With that I agree, everyone should be able to see the story. This is what a FF game is about and it gets pretty interesting too.
Even though it's a side quest imo it has alot to do with the actual story because it explains alot about the whole Bahamut incident and what happened durring the 5 years gap.

[Rosy]

I said "cutting edge". There is no reason that one needs to beat everything in the same patch it comes out. See how Binding Coil turns 1 and 2 were accessible by a decent amount of people in 2.1 with turns 4 and 5 mostly being reserved to statics? See how now it's farming those turns when a new Coil is out? That's how it should be. The ones who strive to be the best will complete the content as intended, and those who either don't want to or can't put in the time, won't. They'll just wait until it becomes more accessible.


snip

Not sure you've been reading....we're not talking "cutting edge"...we're talking the "game" ...MANY, yup many people are still stuck at T5...there's not a lot of farming going on in the GENERAL populace. But there's one helluva lot of headbanging going on in an effort to find even 8 vaguely competent people.

Personally, I loved this game, but even with my infinite patience, 100s of wipes (literally) on Titan EX and T5, my patience wears thin and I'm looking at two new amazing games coming out in the not too far distance.

You see...what we're left with at the moment is running the same dungeons over and over for absolutely nothing except myth. Fates...oh please not fates, they were totally ruined by the forced Atma fiasco, and...crafting (if you're into that).We can't "farm" for High Allagan gear, we can't farm for Levi weapons, (we can't even see the freaking content beyond Titan) we can't do the weekly Rowena token runs, so us "non-exceptional" people, you know, we who pay the majority of subs and therefore keep this game healthy....have absolutely nothing "fun", or productive to do UNLESS WE JOIN A STATIC.

I've made a static this week, it's going to be a long haul as most of the people can only make twice a week and the majority of them are brand new to T5, which means I've put myself back to the beginning, just to be able to progress beyond the dreadknights, because there's no other way of doing it. Which leads back to the OP...there shouldn't be this reliance on getting a "static", we should be able to do stuff that is a challenge, enjoyable and fun with our guildies as in ALL OTHER MMOS so far.

[OSUBuckeye4]

Not sure you've been reading....we're not talking "cutting edge"...we're talking the "game" ...MANY, yup many people are still stuck at T5...there's not a lot of farming going on in the GENERAL populace. But there's one helluva lot of headbanging going on in an effort to find even 8 vaguely competent people.

Personally, I loved this game, but even with my infinite patience, 100s of wipes (literally) on Titan EX and T5, my patience wears thin and I'm looking at two new amazing games coming out in the not too far distance.

You see...what we're left with at the moment is running the same dungeons over and over for absolutely nothing except myth. Fates...oh please not fates, they were totally ruined by the forced Atma fiasco, and...crafting (if you're into that).We can't "farm" for High Allagan gear, we can't farm for Levi weapons, (we can't even see the freaking content beyond Titan) we can't do the weekly Rowena token runs, so us "non-exceptional" people, you know, we who pay the majority of subs and therefore keep this game healthy....have absolutely nothing "fun", or productive to do UNLESS WE JOIN A STATIC.

I've made a static this week, it's going to be a long haul as most of the people can only make twice a week and the majority of them are brand new to T5, which means I've put myself back to the beginning, just to be able to progress beyond the dreadknights, because there's no other way of doing it. Which leads back to the OP...there shouldn't be this reliance on getting a "static", we should be able to do stuff that is a challenge, enjoyable and fun with our guildies as in ALL OTHER MMOS so far.

^^this


I'll add this....

Look, there is a place for ultra-hard content in MMORPG's that requires statics and hours upon hours of failing to complete. That content should be stand-alone (or "brick wall") in nature though.

The upcoming "brutal" mode stuff is the route that SE should be taking with this type of content. Put it out there and offer non-game breaking rewards (like a coin that you can exchange for titles or mounts or fancy minions or housing decorations) for completing it.

Don't put a bunch of storyline and lore behind that fight, because 95+% of your playerbase will never see it, and a sizeable portion of them will get frustrated and end up leaving.

There are few things that upset people more than knowing that there is something behind that locked door they are trying to open.

That's the real problem with a lot of this content.

When you beat Twintania, there is storyline and progession that leads to more storyline behind it. When you beat Titan EX, there is progression to additional content that has been released that offers additional rewards for completion.

THAT is what drives people insane. All this stuff exists that they are not able to gain access too and experience.


And if you're doing to take that route, don't make the battles so scripted. There is nothing more boring than following a script to beat a fight. It's not a real test of skill, it's just memorization.

It's like running a firearms course where you know exactly where the targets are going to pop up. Sure, you need to know how to point, aim, shoot and reload your weapon... but, you're not really getting a test of your practical skill with the firearm if you know exactly where the next target is going to pop up EVERY time. After the 99th run where you hit every target and your partner screws up on the 3rd target, you will just say, "eff this, I'm out" and hand over your badge.



There should absoultely be a "normal" or "easy" mode for Coil and the EX primals. Nerf the rewards, but allow people who can't find statics to at least progress onto the other new content that was released.



TLDR version...

SE has two ways to go about things:

1) Make end-game content stand-alone and not in any way related to lore or progression (like they are going to do with the Brutal modes)

2) Offer a storyline or easy mode to get through existing end-game content that is acting as a gate to other content, but nerf the rewards and achievements if people choose to use it. I guess SE tried this with the echo buff, but that is worthless on fights like Titan EX that have insta-kill mechanics.


Don't put up brick walls and have all of your additional content hide behind those walls. That causes people to leave. Like I said earlier, nothing upsets someone more than knowing that there is something they want behind a locked door that they can't open.

No one is going to legitimately complain about not getting a title or a vanity housing item... people are going to legitimately complain about not being able to acess a bunch of additional fights and storyline that reveal lore.