Current State of End-Game Contents - A Blog Post from A Japanese Player

[Burien]

This is what I think I would like changed most and you summed it up perfectly. As we are getting more members in the FC it just would be more fun to be able to do content together.

[OSUBuckeye4]

About scripted boss fights, I do agree that they can turn dull after awhile, but at the same time a random fight could be unfair.
So why can't we have a bit of both?
Some fights that are scripted and some randomized fights? Or even a mix that involves scripted "key" sequences in a battle and lighter randomized sequences?
Why not even go beyond the "standard" MMO conventions and make a fight that's not just about players reacting to the opponent but t hat also involves the opponent reacting to players? Perhaps even trying to trick the player.
I believe that a mix between scripted and randomized would be ideal as it would give the player a sense of near-AI.

I would have no problem at all with that.

Look, there are obviously going to be times when scripts are necessary. For example, you get a boss down to a certain percentage of health and that boss morphs into something else, or summons adds.

I have nothing against that at all, and I'm sure most people reading this don't either.

I'm not asking for bosses that think and act like actual players. I don't want to face an Extreme Primal that accidently hits the wrong button and jumps off a cliff to it's death, that would just be stupid. I also don't want it the other way around and go into an Extreme Primal battle and watch it fire off a combo that is literally impossible to recover from.


I'm just saying the level of scripting in these hard fights are absurd. It's literally the exact same pattern every time. It's just not fun to me... and I know I'm not the only one who feels this way.

Maybe the answer is this... you do into a fight and it's on a script. If you fail multiple times, the boss says something like, "I see you're no match for me, I'll take it easier on you this round!" and you get another script that removes one of the mechanics.

Or, you go into a fight and midway through the battle there is one of four different scripts that the boss could employ, and you have to be ready for them.


Just, something to differenciate the battles a little bit so that they don't all feel the same every time you run them. These Extreme primals and Coil runs start to feel like treadmills after awhile, not actual gaming experiences.

I would say the same thing about the dungeons themselves. It's no fun when the same monsters appear in the same place every time you run the dungeon. It would be nice if there was a little randomness to it... maybe throw in a special monster that can spawn at rare points... or add a bonus room or chest that appear randomly.

Just, mix it up a bit. Running Sastasha for the 99th time on Low Level DF is mind numbingly boring. And I know, no one is forcing me to run it, but, what else am I going to do? Run something else that I've run 15 times and is going to be the exact same the 16th time?

Maybe it's not possible to do any of these things, but, if it is, that's what I would really like to see.

[Nie]

First, thank you to the OP for the translation. Opening the discussion is a great service to the community whether or not people agree with the premise of the post.

Here are a few things I'd like to add to the conversation:

"100% randomness would be unfair"
Why can't monsters have cooldowns, TP, and other combat resource limitations like players? Even better, how about they use things with some measure of AI? For example, Titan could use WoL when people are spread out, or might use mountain buster when the tank's HP isn't full. (In its current state this might be overwhelming; would need adjustment)

Vertical growth
I understand many people loathe the idea of multiple gearsets, but I think that kind of horizontal equipment progression is fun and allows character growth to happen at a slower pace. This allows the players on the more hardcore end of the spectrum to make marginal gains while the more casual players aren't left so far behind.

Content locking
While I understand the purpose behind time locks, it creates LS/FC/Static administrative nightmares. One common problem is a FC with some "static" groups and a surplus of a few extra people. The group must work out scheduling and determine which people are left out. Those people are forced to run with others who are not locked. Though I understand the intention is to provide people without an in-game community to run content, it detracts from the communities who want to help all of their members clear on a weekly basis without the agony of trying to find people who have a similar level of experience with a particular encounter. As an example, I 1-shot most of act 2 with my static, but struggle for hours to clear on my alt character (some weeks, tens of hours).

In addition, it would be nice to see at least some triggered (or similar) content. This would provide something for a small collection of players to do. For example, Sky and Sea were so successful because you could start with 2 people and farm easy triggers. As more and more people logged on, you could add them to the group and progressively tackle harder content. This type of content allowing group size to scale allowed people to log on and off as they pleased, without a hard schedule, and without fear of being locked out for the week.

Large-scale content
Simply put: it would be great to run content with more than 8 FC mates. The next addition to Crystal Tower is supposed to provide this but may not satiate the desire to build strong cohesion within a community.

Instanced content & immersion (yeah, I said it)
Simple things like the vast majority of content being instanced, not being able to see LS/FC details or even send and receive tells in instances is downright frustrating. A nice compromise would be simply fixing communication channels within instances. Real-world content has limitations with spawns, griefing, hardware/rendering/lag, etc... but some limited forms of it would be a nice addition.

[TeaTimeBear]

Instanced content & immersion (yeah, I said it)
Simple things like the vast majority of content being instanced, not being able to see LS/FC details or even send and receive tells in instances is downright frustrating. A nice compromise would be simply fixing communication channels within instances. Real-world content has limitations with spawns, griefing, hardware/rendering/lag, etc... but some limited forms of it would be a nice addition.

(Sorry about multiple posts, I don't have enough rep to include them all in one; tried to shorten)

Edit button gets past 1k.

[Nie]

Edit button gets past 1k.

Thanks, guess I should change it to "too noob to forums to know how to circumvent the character limitation"

(I've consolidated them now)

[Mamba]

Well said, hope this reaches the devs ears

[Asra]

Let's see here.

Mechanics/gimmick driven fights where single players can hold an entire group back, regardless of gear/echo - check
Toxicity in the playerbase from preferences to hang around other players that can actually handle aforementioned mechanics - check (guilty as charged, by the way.)
Lack of meaningful "current" content that players of any playstyle can enjoy - big check
The inevitability that, due to party size limits and weekly lockouts, friends and FC mates get left out - check
A large portion of the largest segment of the playerbase (casuals) not logging in anymore due to frustration from all of the above - big check

Sounds like a pretty accurate assessment of the game to me.

[Jacost]

Yeah, the high level content in this game (Primals in particular) are like school exams: you study for them, you take mocks and eventually pass, and then the knowledge needed becomes irrelevant for the rest of your life. You didn't learn to play the game, you learned to win that one fight.

Now, randomness in fights has the chance to go horribly wrong or let players just blaze through, on blind luck on both counts. So it's not good as a skill check either way. Implementing a smart AI for the Primals rather than a rotation would be an interesting solution, but all we really need are fights that can and will go in unexpected directions, not to the point where they are impossible, but so that skilled players can adapt to the changing situation and pull off a win.

I think the thing is that coming up with gimmicks and programming set rotations of abilities is just easier. They have to churn something out every three months, so they're on a tight schedule.

[Litre]

Ya I agree, balancing a monster that has random attacks is much harder than creating scripted fights, that can simply be insta-kill.

But to those that say, "if players can't handle scripted mechanics what chance do they have against random skill based dodging/reflex attacks", the main difference is that you'd be able to eat/recover from a few of these attacks. This also makes gear more important and allows for the possibility in the future, with better gear beat it even if you can't dodge as well as the hardcore players.

But too bad, creating such fights would take more time balancing, of course we should have some scripted mechanices/phases, there just needs to be balance.

[Lewena]

That was a great analysis and thanks for the translation. I do agree with this analysis.

I find that community is important for SE as well as - and more importantly - for the so called mainstream players. One thing that was mentionned is 'why on Earth can't I play with my friends?' due to some limitations on the party composition. I was told that WoW implemented Flex mode allowing to go in an dungeon or raid with different number of people in the party. It was a huge succes and they are or will implement it now as the standard mode. There is still a different mode for more challenge though. That's something really interesting due to its flexibility. It does not of course solve the problem of roadblock but would certainly help a lot (as a aide effect).