Current State of End-Game Contents - A Blog Post from A Japanese Player

[Pibz]

I'm really interested about what you consider being "skill".

From wikipedia: "A skill is the learned ability to carry out a task with pre-determined results often within a given amount of time, energy, or both"
Can you carry out the task of finishing a fight without dying? Then you are skilled enough in the fight(regardless of how little importance you give to that skill, or how little of a x measurable trait you need possess to do it) to beat it, you can't do it? You are not.
Now with a logic sequence of thought prove this is breaking the definition of skill. Have fun, im going to play the game now.

[zPanda]

People might enjoy socializing (even though this game still lacks the incentives to do so). That's what Massive Multiplayer stands for, nope ?

If I were to be really honest here, I'd say that you can't find something somehow close to an argument and are trying to label us as trolls because you can't provide a valid point. I might be true. I sure hope that I'm wrong though, because I'd really like to think that people aren't just denying things with no arguments just for the sake of it. If you can't make yourself understood, use other words, rephrase. That's the basis of a wealthy debate.

Lol, me thinks the previous poster just lacks debate "skills" haha. You're absolutely right though, I'm here because of people I've know in FC for quite a while now. If those people quit, I would unsubscribe as well - it's the social aspect that's keeping me subscribed for the time being.

[Raenryong]

If there was no skill component to this game, there would be little variation in DPS/HPS/tanking ability. On the PvP front, the better geared team would always win, guaranteed. Nobody would have trouble with mechanics.

But that's simply not the case. And if you think the only differentiating factor is time invested, you can't play with a lot of people. You will see exceptional DPS who destroy everyone else despite never having done the fight before. You'll see people who have done a fight fifty times still screw up on the mechanics. And no, it's not just about memorisation. You need to know how a mechanic functions in some cases, but you can deal with almost all mechanics purely by reflex. Twintania divebombs were basically the only mechanic which annoyed me as you had to actually memorise a specific movement pattern.

Also, your transferable skills idea is underdeveloped. Warcraft and Starcraft for instance play very differently and while some skills carry over, being good in one doesn't guarantee you'll be good in another. It helps though.

And yeah, people who are experienced with other MMOs tend to find the mechanics in this one easy - mechanics teach you to adapt, maintain dps/hps while moving etc.

And finally, if there is no skill, post a parse of your highest geared job on a dummy (3mins+) - if there is no skill component, you should maximise your dps no problem, especially with no mechanics to worry about.

[Pibz]

snip

No, no no. Being able to do something others can not is not a skill cant you SEE?! Screw dictionaries, logic, and everyone else, they are right god damn it, and that's the end of that!

[Raenryong]

Our sense of "skill" is aptitude that will help you from one game/fight to be at least good enough to do an other game/fight. It's not your definition. Yet it has the same result. xx fight won't help you clear yy fight.

Completely untrue. All fights are exercises in maintaining your output while dealing with various mechanics, from rudimentary dodging to something more complicated á la T8 towers.

[Pibz]

Heh, here we can talk ^^

From what I understand then, FFxiv's skill only carry over a certain fight, and has little to no value on other fights.

Then we are saying basically the same thing, don't you think ? training for a fight allows you to have enough skill for this fight in that sense, ok. But no skill for other fights, as they are totally different (some may be a little similar, but never significantly close to say that achieving XX fight will help you win yy fight).

Our sense of "skill" is aptitude that will help you from one game/fight to be at least good enough to do an other game/fight. It's not your definition. Yet it has the same result. xx fight won't help you clear yy fight.

NO that is not what was being discussed, you were saying each individual fight in their own regard offered no challenge, and therefor required no skill.
I don't give a flying crap if that skill is usable in the future or not(btw nice paradox, "all fights only require you to be able to dodge stuff", yet the skill from one fight does not apply to the other lol), nor is the thread about that, there is a SKILL requirement and you just admitted to it.
You guys were the ones who wanted to argue semantics, and now you can't prove the definition wrong, obviously. Just stop please
.

[Pooky_Pasha]

It would be really interesting to get one group of 8 "hardcore" players, and another group of 8 "mainstream" players, and when 2.3 is released, have a real-time stream of the 2 parties in Ramuh-EX practicing to defeat it with no external apps or voice-chat. I would bet the amount of time required for each party to defeat it would be close to the same.

lol, that's cute. My money is on "hardcore" groups like Blue Garter in a landslide. They simply understand how mechanics work better and how to adapt to them much better and much quicker than the "mainstream" player. Plus they will probably maximize their individual role performances much better than the "mainstream" player. If you think otherwise, you're delusional.

Anyway, if someone can't see that there is some skill involved in maximizing individual job performances while handling whatever mechanics the fight throws at you, you're blind. There differences in overall performances between equally geared players on the same fight (and in every fight really) is way to vast. Whether it is from not being able to handle the fight mechanics as well, not being able to perform the job as well, or both, the skill differences are noticeable and are there.

[Pibz]

lol, that's cute. My money is on "hardcore" groups like Blue Garter in a landslide. They simply understand how mechanics work better and how to adapt to them much better and much quicker than the "mainstream" player. Plus they will probably maximize their individual role performances much better than the "mainstream" player. If you think otherwise, you're delusional.

Indeed, thinking people who clear content like EX primals the day they come out vs people who struggle with mechanics like landslide or whatever for months after it is released would be a fair match up is completely delusional.

[Raenryong]

3) I did not say that they offered "no challenge", but "false difficulty", in the sense which all challenge disappears the moment you know the dance. There is a difference.

What skill is involved in making every boss a training dummy? FFXI was ridiculously, absurdly easy due to this.

Dealing damage to enemies is one of the basis of a MMORPG. You could have to solve a jumping puzzle every minute to be able to continue the fight that this basis wouldn't change. Yet, dealing with the mechanics of xx can't help you for the mechanics of yy, because they are totally different.

Depends how pedantic you're being. Dealing with conflagrations you could argue won't directly prepare you for anything but conflagrations, while I would argue that it teaches you transferable skills - quick target swapping, preparing yourself beforehand (you want your Straight Shot buff already up, as well as Venomous Bite and Windbite on Twintania when they pop for maximum damage as a Bard, for example), raid awareness and how to maximise your DPS within a 4-5 GCD window, preparing cooldowns if necessary.

Things like Landslides teach you how to DPS while moving and not to overreact, and if you're a BLM for instance, it also tests when you should move and when you should cast, for instance.

The vast majority of mechanics teach you transferable skills. Being able to deal with conflagrations effectively prepares you for Dark Matter Hornets and Dark Matter Slugs in T6 for example.

[Bizniztyme]

Wow, people are really arguing it doesn't take skill to beat those fights? LOL too funny. In that case, I should be able to beat any fight I join with ease because I'm the most unskillful person to play this game. You can memorize (it's a skill by the way) and watch videos of the fights all you want but if you can't execute, you got no skills and I'm the first to admit I got no skills but I sure as hell will keep on trying to get better.