Current State of End-Game Contents - A Blog Post from A Japanese Player

[Litre]

We're digressing again, and I think the OP needs to put this part in BOLD because many of you are so biased and don't see it :

this is not a post about making arguments like "well I think the game is fun because I can clear the contents" or "you just don't think it's fun because you can't clear the contents" .[/COLOR]

To make such an argument is like having someone say to you "I have practiced, reviewed and studied hard to learn English and now I can read and write English at the top-university level and have no problems with daily English conversations so it's fun for me. A ton of people in the world also speak English, so if you work hard at it you can be just like us too!" (You'd think "what a snob!")

I do not intend to write about the end-game contents from such a one-sided standpoint.

The largest group here, the casual players, have all yet to still challenge the Extreme Primals and Coil. But the reality is that a large portion of this group have already stopped playing altogether.

Many players are stuck on Extreme Primals due to the mechanics-driven nature of the fights. They can't react to them even if it's explained to them. They simply cannot clear unless they get lucky.

Even with the power of Echo, as mentioned earlier, it does nothing to help them clear the fight if they cannot deal with the mechanics. If they could then they would have cleared them long ago even without the Echo buff or the now-higher gear level.

Even with a new patch, there's not much for them to do (since they're still stuck on old contents), and so they get bored of the game and quit. It's only natural.

For example "bias":

I don't really get what the OP is asking for here. Make all the fights easier so people don't quit?

There's basically only 2 ways to make boss fights difficult, gear checks and mechanics. Remove the mechanics part and all you have is gear checks which can eventually be overcome by anyone.

As an example Turns 6 and 7 are very much mechanics based fights, you could probably beat them both in i80 gear, possibly lower...

- No, the OP is not asking for a decrease in difficulty (read the Follow-Up) because many people have that misconception
- No, the OP is not asking to remove mechanics, but merely keep them and ease/balance it so the mechanics can "EVENTUALLY" be overcome by gear, albeit months after the content is released
- But this highlights your bias completely, see you're a competent player, this probably isn't your first MMO - you've got good reflexes and good mouse/keypad control I'm sure. Ok when my girlfriend plays she can barely control her camera and the character at the same time, and her mouse control isn't the best, she didn't grow up playing CounterStrike like me, oh really?
- Your quote "you could probably beat them both in i80 gear" simply shows your ignorance, I am not attacking you, lots of us here are like that - there are people that couldn't beat it even if they had iLvl120 gear, try to understand that. These are not gamers, imagine you trying to get your mom or dad to play, (generalizing here, maybe ur whole family are PRO gamers), but you get my point right? They'd be like... cooldowns what are those? Even after 2 months of playing they'd understand many things, but still.


So lets reiterate this again, get off your high horse, what's easy for you is not for others, Many players are stuck on Extreme Primals due to the mechanics-driven nature of the fights. They can't react to them even if it's explained to them. They simply cannot clear unless they get lucky. Please don't forget that FFXIV has a large influx of players who joined simply because it was FF not realizing what they got themselves into.


Then there's this, this is called "sample bias", this person probably plays with a pretty good FC, tackling end-game content and is completely oblivious to the many casual players who haven't even figured out how to join a FC (just an exaggeration but you know).

This is ridiculous though. Once hardcores have won, then you want less hardcores to win BUT NOT people below that. You want people to win in waves based on skill so that everyone can have a sense of accomplishment. And a lot of lesser skilled players are clearing this content. Even pretty low skilled players can actually dodge divebombs but only now can they handle healing in that fight better.

Lesser-skilled players? Who are we talking about here, remember Yoshida said under 5% of the player-base has beaten Turn 5. Yes so the PROs, you are skilled, and the lesser-skilled are the mainstream players. You are completely overlooking a large swath of players who tried Titan once and said "this isn't fun". So many people only hang out with other skilled players that they have a false sense of who the average player is, truth is, you probably don't even know any within your 5 LS and 1 FC, well probably there'd be a few but you probably don't party with them or talk to them much, they're probably still lvl 43 or something.

- What do you mean by win in waves based on skill? You think they will keep regrouping, practicing and attempting it at the current difficulty, until there are enough people it reaches critical mass and then a wave of players beat it? Wrong, perhaps a few, but others will just quit (what we don't want). You don't know it, but you are coming off as really elitist, like you can't understand why it's so hard for others simply because you find it so easy. Perhaps investing time and practice will eventually help them beat it, but you also make the false assumption that these players have the time to do it, and that they enjoy it enough to do it (for that sense of accomplishment). But newsflash, I know a lot of people, who don't like that level of challenge, you probably know a few kids like this, when they played other FFs they grind on the world map, leveling up to 10+ the required level to beat the boss. Ring a bell? They are playing the game for the story line and the experience, and when they beat it, they are happy to play on easy/normal mode.

Ok I'm going to keep iterating this, at the current difficulty, many players will not EVERRRR beat this stuff, I have, but I also know players who have 2 second reflexes and will eat 1/3 landslides, I don't want to imagine them at harder dungeons.

This blog post is not written from the perspective of what I think about the game based on which contents I can or cannot clear. It is primarily written from the standpoint of "how can we prevent players from leaving FFXIV, or to gain more new players?"

At the current rate, we will simply bleed casual players until all we have left are your regular MMO players, it won't be Final Fantasy anymore. Just another MMO with FF style.


So what many us here are asking is: when you nerf old content, do it comprehensively so that the mechanics are also nerfed to not be insta-kill but hurt a lot, then they have at least the "hope" of one day getting good gear another way, quests, buying it, materia, etc and then beating it And at the rate these players are progressing, by the time they reach the content they only need to experience a fight that's "hard" for them, even though you find it hilariously easy, try to be respectful that there are a variety of different people.

You're playing on hard mode, you deserve the cool stuff first, that's fine, please realize there are players that never play "any" games on hard, they play on easy, they enjoy playing games, and it's challenging enough for them. They want to relax, not watch YouTube videos, practice and get harassed by you hardcore players, who simply don't understand their difficulties, coming from a non-gamer background. And we need these people to support the game/developers so FF can continue to flourish.

[TinyRedLeaf]

So lets reiterate this again, get off your high horse, what's easy for you is not for others.

(1)
Less-skilled players? Who are we talking about here, remember Yoshida said under 5% of the player-base has beaten Turn 5. Yes so the PROs, you are skilled, and the less-skilled are the mainstream players. You are completely overlooking a large swath of players who tried Titan once and said "this isn't fun".

What do you mean by win in waves based on skill? You think they will keep regrouping, practicing and attempting it at the current difficulty, until there are enough people it reaches critical mass and then a wave of players beat it? Wrong, perhaps a few, but others will just quit (what we don't want). You don't know it, but you are coming off as really elitist, like you can't understand why it's so hard for others simply because you find it so easy.

(2)
But newsflash, I know a lot of people, who don't like that level of challenge.. They are playing the game for the story line and the experience, and when they beat it, they are happy to play on easy/normal mode.

At the current rate, we will simply bleed casual players until all we have left are your regular MMO players, it won't be Final Fantasy anymore. Just another MMO with FF style.

Firstly, a BIG thank you to EmiliM for translating an extremely well-thought post by a Japanese player, and for stimulating a highly constructive discussion among the community.

Secondly, an even BIGGER thank you to Litre for reiterating the two key points I quoted above.

I suppose that I qualify as a "casual" player, in that my key focus in playing any RPG, be it single-player or an MMO, is to experience the story. This has always been the reason that I love the Final Fantasy franchise so much — it gave me a whole new way of looking at gaming. Games like FFX and FFVI, for example, showed me how video games could actually be a valid platform for storytelling, just like the tabletop, pen-and-paper RPGs of old.

That's not to say that I don't feel that games shouldn't be challenging. If they're too easy, then they're boring, and quite frankly, not fun. Also, I'm fully aware that I'm playing with other people when I play an MMORPG like FFXIV, and that gives me further motivation to do the best I can, in whatever role I choose, because I don't want to be the guy who wastes other people's time by my lack of prepardness.

==============

But I'd be the first to openly admit that I'll never be as "good" as a hardcore gamer with hours upon hours of previous experience in other games. Simply because that's just not the kind of gamer I am. I play for the story and role-play experience, and I don't particularly care about being "elite" or "uber". I just want to be good enough to make sure that I pull my weight.

And the way things are right now, I just can't get past Turn 5, simply because of bad luck. I've been stuck there since mid-April, having started playing the game regularly from last Christmas. And it's not for the lack of trying. It's simply the case that even if I get my role correct, there's bound to be one guy or another who doesn't.

I would love to stick it out to the end with the raid group, but sooner or later, those who are more experienced would simply throw up their arms in frustration and vote to abandon after two or three failures. I respect their decision but, inside, I'm saddened by the clear lack of solidarity to help the less-experienced players pull through.

Up until Turn 5, I've been able to complete major milestones at a steady clip, all the way through Turns 1 to 4. And it was this sense of steady progression that made me want to continue playing.

And the challenge level was still there back in mid-April, sufficient enough that the first pick-up raid group that I did Turn 4 with eventually abandoned it after three failed rounds.

Now, though, I don't feel like it's worth continuing any more, at least until the expansion comes around to give me sufficient story-based content to bother. Because I'm stuck, and I don't feel like there's a point to keep bashing my head against an obstacle that exists not entirely because of my own shortcomings.

So, yes, I do hope that Yoshida and his developers take not of this major post and consider a greater variety of end-game content that will satisfy not just the hardcore gamers, but also casuals like me. I don't want nerfed content. But I do want content that doesn't punish players so severely for simply not being able to follow a set script.

[Pibz]

You're playing on hard mode, you deserve the cool stuff first, that's fine, please realize there are players that never play "any" games on hard, they play on easy, they enjoy playing games, and it's challenging enough for them. They want to relax, not watch YouTube videos, practice and get harassed by you hardcore players, who simply don't understand their difficulties, coming from a non-gamer background. And we need these people to support the game/developers so FF can continue to flourish.

Here we go, i knew this thread would derail into this nonsense "There's not enough easy content QQ".

Here's what players who want to play on easy have:
All 10 LVL 50 dungeons
2 Main scenarios
4 HM primals + Ultima(ok lets say 3 if we assume titan as "medium")
Treasure maps and daily quests
Atma/Novus
CT
Coil T1-T4(don't even try to say it isn't easy, with echo its almost pure tank and spank in all of them)
So let's see we have a total of 20-21 encounters + a variety of other systems

Oh, and as clarification, by easy i mean as long as you have the right gear you can just go in without any previous(or very very little) knowledge.

I'd call EX primals maybe medium difficulty content, not really but let's not get into that.
So, people who want some kind of challenge get 4 bosses, and you're saying that this is too much?...

okay you got me, I confess

Instead of cheesy response please answer this point:
"So dodging things that will kill you, while actually performing your job isn't more of a test of your skill than just spamming rotation? mmmkay."

Edit* just found this while reading through the thread

I have no doubt I would have been able to go at least up to T9, maybe even beat that T9 once before 2.4 comes. But I don't think it's worth my time

You're commenting on stuff you've never even attempted, yet discard them as silly easy..
Oh and that "i could do it, i just don't want to" do you realize how much of a cliche you are?