Current State of End-Game Contents - A Blog Post from A Japanese Player

[Raenryong]

Sky in FFXI. Suzaku didn't have a set rotation, but it was largely irrelevant since your tank would just be standing there doing his thing while the healer does his and the DDs do his. At some point in time, it was guaranteed Suzaku would chainspell, and then you shadowbind or chainspell stun him back and continue doing your thing. Isn't that mechanics-driven?

Thing X happen so we all do thing Y - That's mechanics, no?

Yes, but that's the only mechanic in the fight. Otherwise you literally just stood there and mashed away.

How about just asking for separate content that will benefit both sides?

Instead of being sarcastic and unhelpful to the situation overall.

Majority of FATE bosses is basically what they want. Zergable, tank/spank, zero skill fights.

[Litre]

First of all thanks so much for the translation OP

This closely aligns a chat I had the other week or so with my JP friend (I play on a JP server for fun/old times sake), he was telling me on the JP forums and JP players in general were having the same gripes as you described.

Another forum thread about the "Carrot on a stick" http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-On-The-String

Addresses one of the issues, that item levels were irrelevant, and now that makes total sense, because in a mechanics based system items simply don't matter. And I will add that because of these issues that the OP mentioned, the consequence is that:



Aiming for item/weapon rewards is no longer motivational, after all why aim for that item if only one job can use it, it won't affect a fight much anyways and most of all I can't use it to help others clear the fight? Though not the primary reason to get better gear, one large reason that benefits the community is the ability to compensate another player's mistakes by covering for them one way or another.


Anyways I completely agree, my sub will expire at the end of the month finally, I've definitely lost my motivation to keep going and hope Yoshi sees the path they are going down is wrong.

[peaches]

Awesome post, and I both agree and disagree to many parts of it. I have never been a fan of weekly lockouts, because that is just an artificial way of extending the gameplay time. If you can only attempt it once a week that means only 4 attempts at your loot in a single month. If people are completely loot driven, of course they'll stay subscribed for another month to try to get that loot. I've always preferred items being semi-rare with as many chances as you like. Not to the point of Atma though, that drop rate is... something else. I wonder what the official drop rate % is?

On the topic of insta death mechanics, I'm divided. I love Titan HM and Ex because I know I'm skilled enough (if memorizing a set pattern and knowing when/where to move can be called skill, lmao) to down it. Think Dark Souls. Very difficult situations thrown at you, satisfaction at finally learning how to perfectly manage the situation. I think that most content should be difficult in the sense that you have to play your class well rather than knowing how to dodge well. There should be mechanics though, yes.

Not insta kill mechanics, but ones that if you fail to learn it and get hit by it 3-4 times in one fight then you'll finally die. Maybe a stacking damage debuff that only affects damage inflicted from this mechanic? Or maybe it should be something where it does what ever the mechanic is once every minute (or at set hp % intervals. Maybe he does it once at 90% then again at 70%) to give you a chance to learn it. If you get hit by it at that point, simple recovery. The next time he does it (again either at a set time interval or something like 50% health), it does it twice in a row and this time if you fail to dodge both you get hurt pretty bad. It does this maybe once or twice, then progresses to the point where when the mechanic happens (time intervals again or boss health maybe 30% and/or 10%) it does it 3-4 times in a row. At this point if you haven't learned to dodge it and you get hit by all of them, you WILL die. But if you've learned it even enough to dodge it once or twice you'll be hurt but alive. The same thing with a stacking debuff that only affects the mechanic damage would work even if he only does it once every time. Each time you fail to dodge it you take more damage from it.

[odintius]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7cQtbMtODk

[LilaAquillina]

Oh, I think I get it now. Well, a wee bit of randomness would be fun, though by nature gamers tend to analyze any randomness down to its DNA and then it becomes predictable.

Well, thank you for the explanations.

Personally.. the OP was an interesting read. I can't 100% agree with it. I spent entirely too much time in Sky and I'd classify those fights as boring. Also, pop-item farming can burn in Hades.

I'm not sure how I'd make the current end-game fights more fun, short of simply introducing more of them.

[RentisB]

I've been saying this to my friends the few times I've logged in lately. (yeah I'm about over 14 for now) I'm far from the "start new raid the week it's released" hardcore but I consider myself mostly hardcore. I only beat Titan EX recently and that was because I didn't even ATTEMPT it because I didn't want to deal with OTHER people. Sure I'm human and I make mistakes but I tend to pick up new fights pretty quick(I stopped dying on our third wipe and haven't died since) I guess that makes me "skilled" but I was bored out of my mind because it wasn't "fun," like at all.

I haven't bothered with the second turn because it's all just more of the same in a different coat of paint to me. I do think these scripted events do need to exist, but EVERY fight is just lazy imo. Also personally I don't think amazing memories should really count as "skill"... Guess that's just gonna piss people off.


How about "should I use this move or this one right now?" There's almost NONE of that once you've got it memorized, and that's why I'm so bored. Adaptability? forget it. It's learn or die and start over.

I played FF11 for most of a decade and I don't remember it ever being "easy" until Abyssea >.> Y'all are nuts. Sure most fights could be won with just throwing people at it but a lot of them could also be done with a minimal group of very skilled players. I also played WoW a lot and I think the raids there have a nice mix of scripts and random stuff. *shrug* I just think it's WAY too far in one direction right now.

I think simply writing this person off as a casual apologist is a serious mistake if this game is going to have longevity.

[Litre]

If you can't observe a preset, scripted battle it will be even tougher to do randomized battles.

I think you're forgetting a key other point the OP mentioned though, that the random effects you need to dodge are not insta-kill mechanics.

What's that mean? Well if you're a DPS with good gear, or a good healer, you can compensate for their screw up. This may motivate you to get better gear or try harder for that gear because you know it may turn around a fight, saving you and your friends time, a huge benefit I believe.

[Raenryong]

Which fights were difficult aside from the obviously broken AV/PW? Abyssea gets bashed a lot (mainly because it went crazy with 3x Atma) but the enemies in there were actually mechanical. Briareus/Cuelebre/Micua... Serpentes Gloves NM for instance from the first three Abyssea zones all had interesting mechanics, especially done lowman. Lowman RDM on things like Cuelebre/Mict without Atma was a very refreshing challenge for XI. Abyssea only became easy when they overdid the Atma/buff thing.

[ApolloGenX]

Not surprisingly you have people here that consider any criticism to be a critique of their "accomplishments"... you get the typical "they want faceroll" garbage posts by threatened players.

This was a good post that didn't advocate complete removal of these mechanics... just more variety and not having all fights be nothing more than a collection of mechanics.

In other words, stop making all fights just gimmicks...especially when it kills motivation for gear or penalizes grouping. So what if you could zerg something? Who cares? If you want to roll against 20, 30, 40 others- go for it! Maybe not all content should be zergable.. but thiscurrent setup is pretty bland and lazy, imo.

- Oh yeah I really care about doing the same primal with "moar gimmicks"... cause I can get a drop... that really is nothing but vanity. Yeah, I really care about "Coil 2".. which isn't a zone, it's a couple of single instance boss fights. It's a couple of rooms.

The treadmill isn't even subtle... and the rewards don't matter.....

[Buklohn]

This is a good post on the forums, and I do agree with it because the current build of the game relies too heavily on a static 8 man group versus a more social aspect making FC pointless. I enjoy the game a lot, but i can see how these "walls" can be unappealing to casual and mainstream players who just like anyone else wants to get to the next step. There does need to be some kind of middle ground to where the success rate of completing end game content is higher than it's current rate of success.