Current State of End-Game Contents - A Blog Post from A Japanese Player

[Lemon8or]

Titan EX

extra 4 minutes above normal

Those 2 things don't go well with each other. Titan will enrage before you can take 4 minutes extra to normal.

[Nel_Celestine]

Of course it has everything to do with average players, these elite players were once also newbies/average players to the game, some learn the game and became good at it, they naturally gravitate to each other to form groups to clear content. If someone is dedicated enough they can clear content in due time.

Just saying.

The major problem I see is that not everyone learns at the same rate and thus those who learn slower are usually 'cast out' for those that already know or learn really fast. I've seen it happen many a time and while I know it's not always, it's more common than not outside of static groups. The more the fast learning players keep to themselves the more segregated the community becomes. There in lies the problem. Do you magically learn to learn fast, or play with 'the bads' until someone rage quits and the party disbands?

[Dano]

snip

That's true, i absolutely agree, thats why i said "in due time", do you think the slow learners will be forever cast out? would they become good later? If so if they are serious about progression would they seek out like minded players to clear content? I'll say yes, its only natural. The main culprit imo is the mindset/attitude that some players exhibit that they want something right NOW thats detriment to the community.

[Kuwagami]

Of course it has everything to do with average players, these elite players were once also newbies/average players to the game, some learn the game and became good at it, they naturally gravitate to each other to form groups to clear content. If someone is dedicated enough they can clear content in due time.

Just saying.

If you compare elite players to average and say the latter "hey look, people can do it", it doesn't address their own issues. It also fails to address the fact that statics (or semi statics, for that matters) are by no mean comparable to PUGs. I said that after that quote. Form a complete PUG with people you do not know at all, and intentionally die at an awkward moment. You'll see them falling apart, not trying all they have to recover. Do that with a static/semi static, they'll adapt more or less and try to recover (tanks switching roles, bard casting mana song for healers, dps not pushing phase...)


Also, you're missing the point with that comment. The fact that elites were once average people have nothing to do with what I said.

Just to be sure, are you aware that videos about elite players not wiping on a tank death have nothing to do about the fact that average players and groups (and even "not-so-bad"/good groups) can't recover from a death ?

Just saying.

Where do you address the fact that average people can't recover from a death on the concerned content (T5, titan Ex, Coil2 here were the examples) like the elites do ?
You're just saying that elites weren't able to do it once but now they can. Totally different point. In fact, you're even proving my point : average people can't do it while elites do.


and before someone evades the point, I'm not saying here that average people can't clear content. Just that they can't do it the way elites do. So elite's kill videos are irrelevant to address the "average people can't recover (before nerf at some point)".

[dejavutwo]

Personally it boils down to.

A.) Those that want content to be joyful.
B.) Those that want content to be exclusive.

Having content be difficult has nothing to do with being exclusive. Some people have fun overcoming something as a team. My most memorable and satisfying moment in any MMO was when my raid took almost 3 weeks to learn a fight, at 2-3 nights/week of attempts on that boss (Lady Vashj from WoW). Completing the fight not only put our skills to the test, it forced us to learn to work together, trust each other, and how to organize our strategies for each players strengths. After clearing that fight future fights were all much easier and quicker to learn partially because of the group cohesion we built up during that incredibly difficult fight.

Keeping a certain level of difficulty on content does also have the benefit of giving the game a smoother difficulty curve. If T4 was a bit more difficult, and T2 couldn't be done enrage method, then Coil pt.1 would have a very steady difficulty curve and T5 would not have been nearly the culture shock that it is.

Providing content to cater to players who like overcoming challenges is not a bad thing, and making it easier as time goes on to make it more accessible is not a bad either. SE is doing everything they can to balance their demographics with not only the content easing, but also alternate paths to gear of almost equal quality such as Novus and Crystal Tower.

Whether your a hardcore player who has cleared everything, or a more casual player who is stuck on a fight waiting for the next round of CT/Echo, its a slow process and takes patience.

[Archulak]

You guys are reading way too much into what is being said here, my post was made in direct response to the bolded point(absolute statements bug me to all hell). I was ignoring the entire thread at that point and just pointing to one example to disprove that they Definitely can't MT anymore and has nothing to do with any other part of the discussion.

A MT (MainTank) with weakness definetly can no longer be MT any more, if the team at least manage to survive the Boss running havoc on the field.

[Gormogon]

Having content be difficult has nothing to do with being exclusive.

So you're telling me that 100% of the player base can complete it and not the so so small percentage?

[Yukiko]

You guys are reading way too much into what is being said here, my post was made in direct response to the bolded point(absolute statements bug me to all hell). I was ignoring the entire thread at that point and just pointing to one example to disprove that they Definitely can't MT anymore and has nothing to do with any other part of the discussion.

If not overgeared and no OT around prove me wrong please!
You seem to like to play with words, there are so many examples to prove each other wrong, everyone knows what was ment, or at least i thought so before your posting...

[Archulak]

If not overgeared and no OT around prove me wrong please!
You seem to like to play with words, there are so many examples to prove each other wrong, everyone knows what was ment, or at least i thought so before your posting...

The pally in the vid, I don't really think he's that over geared(I'd say he's a little above average from someone who's been pugging coil) and there is no OT in that vid the monk is the one that picked it up. Also I never said that it was something that the average group even had a hope of doing just saying that it is definitely possible to tank with weakness(good use of an absolute statement as there is proof to back it up).

[Kuwagami]

So you're telling me that 100% of the player base can complete it and not the so so small percentage?

please be honest. As much as I dislike the actual concept of rope jumping, 100% of the playerbase can complete the content (except blind people, if there are any... ). The factors included in the fact that they don't are not related to the possibility to do it.


They *can* do it. It has been made so that it is possible to clear it. However, the factors lag, other people, time spent in, personal learning curve (to name a few) will prevent them from succeeding. But this has nothing to do with the fact that they *can* do it.


Out of the people who have not cleared T5, there are :
=> those who never tried
=> those who don't know the fight yet
=> those with no static who did not find the good PUG yet (a whole lot of people fall under those 3 categories)

=> those with lag who can't get past dives, or twisters.


except the last category (which will have a hard time finishing it unless their connection gets fixed), all people could spend time learning, and eventually, maybe, get a kill, depending on their own learning curve, their party members, and some luck.


The problem isn't really here you know...