Current State of End-Game Contents - A Blog Post from A Japanese Player

[rwyan]

I think there is a fine line. I consider myself a casual player (have always been, even all the way back to my EQ days). However, I was always captivated by the more hardcore content. It simply existing added some sense of mystery to the game. In EQ, I knew I'd never get a Fiery Avenger but the fact that it existed gave me something to strive for - even if I never really actively strove for it.

I also believe you need a healthy mix of "hardcore" and "casual" players (and those folks in between) if you wish to have a successful game. The "hardcore" crowd will typically help promote all the cool things that exist in the game simply by walking around in really cool gear or talking about their experiences.

However, you still need to have forms of meaningful progression for all players at all points in the game. If the end-game is all "hardcore" content, your casuals will leave (as they will feel gated by the game and any community standards developed). If everything is easily accomplished, then your hardcore crowd will leave (as they simply chew through stuff to quickly) followed by your casuals (as they will eventually also run out of things to do or get bored).

As it stands, the end-game vertical progression revolves around item level. The horizontal progression comes from leveling other classes, future Grand Company ranks, and Beastman reputation.

Thankfully, the game has added a variety of pathways to go up in item level. Soldiery and myth tokens are rewarded through a variety of activities... duty content still being the most efficient way (but roulette makes that relatively simple).

Right now, it does seem that only time and social establishments separate the "hardcore" and "casual" crowds. The "hardcore" crowd typically will have the social connections to run things like Coil and Crystal Tower more frequently.

I do think that the "hardcore" crowd needs at least one other something to feed it. Something that truly tests their actual skills with comparable rewards. The trick is to making this content both fun, engaging but not "required" to progress in other avenues of end-game. In EQ, getting that fiery avenger would've been awesome, but it was not necessary in order for to enjoy the other awesome end-game content in EQ for example.

[ApolloGenX]

You would get along well with rei ayanami she doesnt understand human stupidity either

..she says as she is confused by players asking for a varied style of content to satisfy a varied style of gameplay.

It's not a hard concept.

Calling players who like varied style of challenges "human stupidity" doesn't make anyone "leet" or "uber"... it just makes them look like un-socialized teenagers.

[Souljacker]

So you are saying that the 5% that want a challenge aren't allowed to have 5% of the content dedicated to them? Seems pretty unfair to me.

Now let me clarify, i have absolutely nothing against "casuals" and i realize they are maybe the majority playing the game and i understand coil has story and some are interested in it.

This is precisely what other games have done to GREAT success. LFR over in WoW is one of the most popular things they ever did. People could see content and get a modest amount of gear that was good enough for a casual that couldn't commit to progression raiding, and the elite % still have their hard mode content that they can barely clear by the next xpac.

Would be great to see that here, and I *thought* that SE was on the right track with "Story mode" and then the other fights, but maybe it needs to be more widely implemented.

[Chocolys]

I kinda agree with the OP.

However I think that allowing a greater party size than normal to help clear a content, should only be allowed for old content (and it would be more fun and flexible party group wise instead of having an ECHO BUFF), but certainly not for the new released end-content. Current-End content should only be something to be merited by the "best" groups with not artificial help.

[Bizniztyme]

The trick is to making this content both fun, engaging but not "required" to progress in other avenues of end-game. In EQ, getting that fiery avenger would've been awesome, but it was not necessary in order for to enjoy the other awesome end-game content in EQ for example.

I thought people in this thread are saying equipment as well as echo didnt matter in any of these fights as long as you know how to dodge, so based on that, you don't really need any equipment to enjoy any content of this game. In fact, that is the bases of the original blog.

[ApolloGenX]

I thought people in this thread are saying equipment as well as echo didnt matter in any of these fights as long as you know how to dodge, so based on that, you don't really need any equipment to enjoy any content of this game. In fact, that is the bases of the original blog.

Yes, you would still need varied content beyond the mechanics driven system in place to create this other content.

A good game should have different types of encounter design, anyway. Some encounters might have these mechanic driven insta-kill mechanics... other encounters might have other design features.

They have been repeating the same design with different mechanics... they need to start mixing it up. FF used to be known as innovative. They are not bringing much in the way of innovation or even variation to the table currently. There's no reason why they can't use the current design, but add new designs in new content to reach more players.

Additionally, the incredibly linear system is an issue. Unlike some games, where a raid (even if not the hardest in the world) could open up new zones or places... in this game they are just instances that are gateways to copied bosses with more mechanics. This contributes to the game feeling smaller than it could feel. The "coil of Bahamut" is a couple of rooms... not even a real zone. Same with CT. This feels to me very "lobby game" like.

[Iriadysa]

..she says as she is confused by players asking for a varied style of content to satisfy a varied style of gameplay.

It's not a hard concept.

Calling players who like varied style of challenges "human stupidity" doesn't make anyone "leet" or "uber"... it just makes them look like un-socialized teenagers.

But the game has varied styles.

You keep repeating this absurd argument where apparently every fight in the game has a version of Landslide. This is not true, and here's a list for you of lv50 content with no auto wipe mechanics:

Admapor Keep (unless your party sucks so much they can't even deal with one guy down during Wall...), Haukke HM, Pharos, Admapor City, Halatil HM, Brayflox HM, the whole atma quest line, Coil T1, T2, T3, T4, Labyrinth of the Ancients, all crafting content, all leveling content, all pvp content, Gilgamesh, Thornmarch HM, all beat tribe quests, all gathering content, all leves... the list probably goes on.

Challenges that include an auto wipe, yet they aren't exactly a big deal because it simply shows a full party inability to finish it (and not a single person's inability):

Garuda HM, Garuda Ex, Ifrit HM, Ifrit Ex, Leviathan HM, Ultima HM.


So the actual thing people are bitching about in this behemoth of a whine thread is:

Coil T5, T6, T7, T8, T9, Titan HM and Titan Ex, Leviathan Ex.

It's not about lack of content that adapts to your wants, no. You know what this really is about? Not getting top gear with the easy content. Thing is, none of you want to actually accept that because everyone knows how petty that is.

[ApolloGenX]

It's not about lack of content that adapts to your wants, no. You know what this really is about? Not getting top gear with the easy content. Thing is, none of you want to actually accept that because everyone knows how petty that is.

Well, that is several encounters in a linear gated line.

It's not about gear. I know gear is all some players care about, but not all players. You can farm tokens for gear and I don't bother anymore, because the gear is pointless.

At some point, you might stop projecting your mindset onto others and realize that casual players are doing those coils and CT... and Thorn. But beyond that, there is still more than half the endgame gated behind those mechanics. That's fine. If they want Coil 2 and rehashed primals for "hardcore" - no problem! But give people more to do than just a couple of rooms in coil, and CT for farming for alt classes.

Sure there is the small group stuff that everyone can do - but those are the same rehashed instances from leveling. (cept for a couple of new ones - which is great... but we have been farming the same instances now for 3 sets of gear!)

[rhemi1]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Crystal Tower exactly the thing for people like the OP's blog post? A more casual, much easier raid that drops lower ilvl gear? Nothing in Labyrinth was at all difficult and if they introduce 24-man pre-mades in 2.3's CT I think it'd be perfect.

Really, they should be introducing CT-tiers alongside Coil. Kinda sucks there's not a lot for lesser skilled players to do at end-game.

Also the OP's blog post is ridiculous and if every encounter in the game was T4 I'd want to quit. T4 (and T8) are nothing but gear check encounters, and they have their place in any progression MMO.

I do agree they could possibly go a little bit lighter on the instant kill mechanics, but I think that's just a natural problem deriving from the default raid size being 8. Small raid sizes = more individual responsibility = tougher to recover when a single player dies.

[Bizniztyme]

Sure there is the small group stuff that everyone can do - but those are the same rehashed instances from leveling. (cept for a couple of new ones - which is great... but we have been farming the same instances now for 3 sets of gear!)

They are adding all kinds of stuff for all kinds of play types. I believe they just need time. Just look at this latest patch. Supposed to be a small patch but they added quite a bit of new stuff for people to do. It's not always about battle content and getting loot.