Current State of End-Game Contents - A Blog Post from A Japanese Player

[Icarian]

Randomness wouldn't simply work in a game like this, if they added went away with scripted patterns they'd have to forgo skills that are able to kill you if you get hit, meaning it would make content pretty much trivial to any static group, else it would make absolutely frustrating, if some people can't deal with mechanics even if they know when they're coming, them being random would make the problem x100 worse and the game would be based around luck... unless they make the bosses way less powerful and not able to kill you if you do a mistake.

Intricate bosses and randomness can't go together, you'd end up with either very easy bosses or luck based frustratingly ones.

[Yurihyuga]

snip

I can guarantee you this game won't last if they keep this up. I for one have already made a decision that if when expansion comes out and its more of the same shit, I quit. I don't talk for everyone but I am pretty sure a lot of people won't be far behind. The expansion will be what defines this game and its direction.

[Icarian]

I can guarantee you this game won't last if they keep this up. I for one have already made a decision that if when expansion comes out and its more of the same shit, I quit. I don't talk for everyone but I am pretty sure a lot of people won't be far behind. The expansion will be what defines this game and its direction.

While that can be true, the same thing could be said if they do make everything faceroll like XI or some other games, you can't make everyone happy.

I'd love some randomness here and there, but you can't really have truly challenging fights if it based on luck rather than skill, you couldn't have stuff like T8's allagan field for example, because it would be complete luck whether you can clear it or die instantly, they'd have to make stuff hit for way less or make the mechanics simpler, which would turn that combat into a simple dummy tank and spank.

[Gormogon]

I can guarantee you this game won't last if they keep this up. I for one have already made a decision that if when expansion comes out and its more of the same shit, I quit. I don't talk for everyone but I am pretty sure a lot of people won't be far behind. The expansion will be what defines this game and its direction.

Totally agree. The current position FFXIV ARR is in regards to end game is the same as WoW with Cataclysm and MoP. Cataclysm and MoP has hurt WoW the most.

While it will all depend on the individual servers populace. Free companies falling apart and players becoming more and more anti-social will end up the norm as difficulty keeps increasing.

[Swagcity]

I can guarantee you this game won't last if they keep this up. I for one have already made a decision that if when expansion comes out and its more of the same shit, I quit. I don't talk for everyone but I am pretty sure a lot of people won't be far behind. The expansion will be what defines this game and its direction.

I fully expect this to be the case; just insert drk, sam, thf or some other popular job to keep the expansion "fresh" and the hundreds of Sephiroth spinoffs happy.

Anyway, if ppl keep subbing, regardless of their issues with this game, it is a non-factor to SE (Not to mention those whom actual enjoy the mechanics). Me? I am un-subbed until they do something about it. Why should I drop money on a game I feel is flawed?

However, if they announce a job I may like, I will play for about a month or less to test it out; I never sub long-term for XIV; that is just me.

Edit: Damn, the thread was just created this morning and nearing 200 likes, wow.

[Raenryong]

I think Turn 7 is a good example of a combination of mechanics with some degree of randomness, while minimising the chance of RNG screwing you over.

[Sylkis]

This is a very good blog post. I would thank the original poster (and you) but unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a feedback/comment section on the blog.

I liked the "Team rope jumping" analogy, so I will continue to use it here.

The boss is rotating the jump rope and every boss does it differently. Gear, along with some knowledge of tanking, healing and DPSing is only a minimum requirement to enter the rope jump game. If someone is said to be a good player, it means that they can get past every rope that comes because they have memorised the pattern for each boss, but not necessarily good at their job.

You may be good at high jumps, long jumps or whatever jumps but they are not recognised because being able to jump is only a minimum requirement and doing "good jumps" simply count as a pass. The outcome of a person jumping can only be a pass or fail. At the current endgame, each player is given say 10 jumps and the only way to pass is for the whole team to get 80/80 jumps. If anyone fails a jump, the rope stops completely its a wipe. The current endgame requires perfection of getting past the rope rather than having players excel at jumping (their job).

Now, what if instead the outcome of a jump is not just 1 or 0 (pass/fail), but can be anything depending on how well the person jumps? As the OP has noted, Turn 4 is an example of this. A good tank will be able to mitigate more damage and a healer heal more efficiently, allowing them to score more than 1 for doing a fancy jump. What if someone is better at high jumps than long jumps? In Turn 8 you can choose what kind of jumps you want to do (to some extent). In addition, your gear will increase the score you get for a jump.

___

So what if you still don't make the required score to pass?

The encounter is broken into multiple phases and the score is evaluated at the end of each phase. In the current system, if someone fails a jump then the rope stops. What should happen is that the rope continues, and even if you don't make the required score you should be able to enter the next phase. In the next phase, you will be required to get a higher score than normal. If you have failed constantly in the previous phases then it will be impossible achieve the required score for the last phase. Again, this is shown in Turn 4 where if you did not do well, instead of wiping, the next wave is brought down and you still have a chance to clear (through the use of LB or whatever).

___

How to implement this?

-Change instant wipes as a result of a failed DPS check or a failed "rope jump" by a single person to some sort of resource drain or detrimental effect for the party, and/or buff for the boss
--Examples
--If Titan heart is not broken, then empty everyone's MP and the limit bar
--Rot should kill the one person who had it only and buff the boss etc

-Change unrecoverable deaths so that it is possible to get back into the game
--Examples
--If you fall of the edge in titan/leviathan, you have to take time to climb/swim back up (which may cause a failed DPS check and make everyone's job harder)
--If you have weakness then you might not be able to survive. Change it so that weakness reduces your capability to do your job well rather than reduce HP.


Make it only possible to come back if members excel at their job (e.g. solo heal/tank for a while).


Additional:

OP doesn't want to make the game easier, but more forgiving (which doesn't mean it will be easier).

Take T6 and T7 for example.
If someone gets eaten by mistake, it is not an instant wipe. Its not an instant wipe at a certain amount of stacks either, it depends on your skill and gear.
If someone accidentally sends out voice in the wrong direction and gets a person or two, its not an instant wipe. If it's a healer(s), the tank just has to hold it out for 30 seconds. If it's a melee DPS, just move the boss away. If it's the offtank and adds are coming, the party just has to stop attacking for a while. If someone is stoned where they are and gets shriek, everyone needs to run to the hiding spot (This happened to our party once and we actually made it through in the end).

Making a mistake makes the fight harder instead of impossible, and this is balanced by the ease of making the mistake. It's also not always easy to be able to recover, and it gives a chance for good players to shine. I think this is what OP wants.

[RyuDragnier]

This is a very good blog post. I would thank the original poster (and you) but unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a feedback/comment section on the blog.

I liked the "Team rope jumping" analogy, so I will continue to use it here.

The boss is rotating the jump rope and every boss does it differently. Gear, along with some knowledge of tanking, healing and DPSing is only a minimum requirement to enter the rope jump game. If someone is said to be a good player, it means that they can get past every rope that comes because they have memorised the pattern for each boss, but not necessarily good at their job.

You may be good at high jumps, long jumps or whatever jumps but they are not recognised because being able to jump is only a minimum requirement and doing "good jumps" simply count as a pass. The outcome of a person jumping can only be a pass or fail. At the current endgame, each player is given say 10 jumps and the only way to pass is for the whole team to get 80/80 jumps. If anyone fails a jump, the rope stops completely its a wipe. The current endgame requires perfection of getting past the rope rather than having players excel at jumping (their job).

Now, what if instead the outcome of a jump is not just 1 or 0 (pass/fail), but can be anything depending on how well the person jumps? As the OP has noted, Turn 4 is an example of this. A good tank will be able to mitigate more damage and a healer heal more efficiently, allowing them to score more than 1 for doing a fancy jump. What if someone is better at high jumps than long jumps? In Turn 8 you can choose what kind of jumps you want to do (to some extent). In addition, your gear will increase the score you get for a jump.

___

So what if you still don't make the required score to pass?

The encounter is broken into multiple phases and the score is evaluated at the end of each phase. In the current system, if someone fails a jump then the rope stops. What should happen is that the rope continues, and even if you don't make the required score you should be able to enter the next phase. In the next phase, you will be required to get a higher score than normal. If you have failed constantly in the previous phases then it will be impossible achieve the required score for the last phase. Again, this is shown in Turn 4 where if you did not do well, instead of wiping, the next wave is brought down and you still have a chance to clear (through the use of LB or whatever).

___

How to implement this?

-Change instant wipes as a result of a failed DPS check or a failed "rope jump" by a single person to some sort of resource drain or detrimental effect for the party, and/or buff for the boss
--Examples
--If Titan heart is not broken, then empty everyone's MP and the limit bar
--Rot should kill the one person who had it only and buff the boss etc

-Change unrecoverable deaths so that it is possible to get back into the game
--Examples
--If you fall of the edge in titan/leviathan, you have to take time to climb/swim back up (which may cause a failed DPS check and make everyone's job harder)
--If you have weakness then you might not be able to survive. Change it so that weakness reduces your capability to do your job well rather than reduce HP.


Make it only possible to come back if members excel at their job (e.g. solo heal/tank for a while).


Additional:

Everything here is exactly how I feel about the system and what needs to be done with this. I've given up on Coil after 4 months because I've never cleared T5 due to a SINGLE PERSON causing a wipe every single time. The worst part about this is that there's actual important story gated behind these Turns. I've read the spoilers, it's amazing story and twists, and yet I will never see it just due to these mechanic driven fights requiring such perfection from everybody. That's the main thing that irritates me about these mechanic driven fight barriers, that there's important story behind those barriers.

[Sylkis]

also this is not a counter argument to my not wanting all meaning in the deaths removed which is what the guy i was replying to was suggestion, if you cant run the hard content (specifically made to be hard) wait until nerf.

The problem is that it's easy to not fall off but the consequences of doing so is harsh. To anyone with experience, the falling off and instant death mechanics are boring because it just won't happen. It's as easy as breathing but if you forget to breathe, you die. But the only people who pay any attention to breathing are those new to it or those who are somehow impaired.

The result is stuff like Titan/Levi is too easy, and I hardly run them anymore. But they are hard to get into for casuals.

It's not real difficulty, just easy things done under huge pressure.

[KiraVaela]

No.

I enjoy the game the way it is. I enjoy exactly what others seem to dislike. This is why I play FFXIV and not WoW. Stop trying to change this game according to your liking and go play something else if this does not fit you.