Current State of End-Game Contents - A Blog Post from A Japanese Player

[Colvin]

I have said before in previous posts (sadly which did not get traction), that a great way to fix this would be to have:

1. a practice feature where after beating a phase and dying you start over from that phase. Of course nothing is dropped from this other than a title when you beat it. However, this would give practice groups a place to actually practice end phases without spending hours of time getting there.

2. Consider having a save feature in the regular fights in an increasing way. If you beat phase 1 10 times in a row, you start at phase 2... etc.

Lots of people liked the idea, it just didnt stick around because there wasnt enough arguing to keep it afloat :/

[Kuwagami]

Just to be sure, are you aware that videos about elite players not wiping on a tank death have nothing to do about the fact that average players and groups (and even "not-so-bad"/good groups) can't recover from a death ?

Just saying.


A more accurate example could be my last T5 : everyone dropping dead one after another following a stupid mistake on the last DK before hatch phase, the healer swift raised me as a bard right when the tank dropped dead as well. LB3, echo helped us to win as the price of the OT being slaughtered the time for us to recover positions and focus. That was a complete PUG group with the sole condition being "know DK how to dodge twisters". People were not so great, dps was sloppy on conflags/snakes even with the 15%, but they were pro dodgers so who cares ?

It shows that players a little above average (provided they dedicated time learning the fight) can recover when things turn ugly. That said, if such a thing were to happen on T8/T9, it would be a wipe. Average players can't have the coordination and cold-blood needed for that when shit happens out of nowhere (in a PUG). That was the original point made by Yukiko.

And counter examples made of statics' kill or semi static (half static and half FC is so much more coordinated than random PUG... it's a whole different world) fail hard to address the point.
(still awesome recoveries though)


(and just to be sure that everyone understands what I'm saying, I bolded the important part. Thanks to echo)

[Dano]

Just to be sure, are you aware that videos about elite players not wiping on a tank death have nothing to do about the fact that average players and groups (and even "not-so-bad"/good groups) can't recover from a death ?

Just saying.

Of course it has everything to do with average players, these elite players were once also newbies/average players to the game, some learn the game and became good at it, they naturally gravitate to each other to form groups to clear content. If someone is dedicated enough they can clear content in due time.

Just saying.

[Nel_Celestine]

Of course it has everything to do with average players, these elite players were once also newbies/average players to the game, some learn the game and became good at it, they naturally gravitate to each other to form groups to clear content. If someone is dedicated enough they can clear content in due time.

Just saying.

The major problem I see is that not everyone learns at the same rate and thus those who learn slower are usually 'cast out' for those that already know or learn really fast. I've seen it happen many a time and while I know it's not always, it's more common than not outside of static groups. The more the fast learning players keep to themselves the more segregated the community becomes. There in lies the problem. Do you magically learn to learn fast, or play with 'the bads' until someone rage quits and the party disbands?

[Dano]

snip

That's true, i absolutely agree, thats why i said "in due time", do you think the slow learners will be forever cast out? would they become good later? If so if they are serious about progression would they seek out like minded players to clear content? I'll say yes, its only natural. The main culprit imo is the mindset/attitude that some players exhibit that they want something right NOW thats detriment to the community.

[Kuwagami]

Of course it has everything to do with average players, these elite players were once also newbies/average players to the game, some learn the game and became good at it, they naturally gravitate to each other to form groups to clear content. If someone is dedicated enough they can clear content in due time.

Just saying.

If you compare elite players to average and say the latter "hey look, people can do it", it doesn't address their own issues. It also fails to address the fact that statics (or semi statics, for that matters) are by no mean comparable to PUGs. I said that after that quote. Form a complete PUG with people you do not know at all, and intentionally die at an awkward moment. You'll see them falling apart, not trying all they have to recover. Do that with a static/semi static, they'll adapt more or less and try to recover (tanks switching roles, bard casting mana song for healers, dps not pushing phase...)


Also, you're missing the point with that comment. The fact that elites were once average people have nothing to do with what I said.

Just to be sure, are you aware that videos about elite players not wiping on a tank death have nothing to do about the fact that average players and groups (and even "not-so-bad"/good groups) can't recover from a death ?

Just saying.

Where do you address the fact that average people can't recover from a death on the concerned content (T5, titan Ex, Coil2 here were the examples) like the elites do ?
You're just saying that elites weren't able to do it once but now they can. Totally different point. In fact, you're even proving my point : average people can't do it while elites do.


and before someone evades the point, I'm not saying here that average people can't clear content. Just that they can't do it the way elites do. So elite's kill videos are irrelevant to address the "average people can't recover (before nerf at some point)".

[Mcclebby]

I agreed with the OP/blogger. XIV:ARR focus too much on execution or rather just dodging of instant kill mechanics. Given the similarity or the idea of this game is build around WoW. WoW itself have more then one kind of execution to avoid instant KO(Stack on tank during certain move, Spread out, click this) and more variance of boss mechanics then XIV:ARR has(e.g. Look at Ulduar)

P.S. IMO(Just mine really!) using XIV:ARR is a new game and similar excuses does not excuse it from the lackluster content or boss mechanics it provide for the audience given that XIV:ARR is not a new IP from SE or is it the first time SE is doing a MMO.

[kukurumei]

I agreed with the OP/blogger. XIV:ARR focus too much on execution or rather just dodging of instant kill mechanics. Given the similarity or the idea of this game is build around WoW. WoW itself have more then one kind of execution to avoid instant KO(Stack on tank during certain move, Spread out, click this) and more variance of boss mechanics then XIV:ARR has(e.g. Look at Ulduar)

P.S. IMO(Just mine really!) using XIV:ARR is a new game and similar excuses does not excuse it from the lackluster content or boss mechanics it provide for the audience given that XIV:ARR is not a new IP from SE or is it the first time SE is doing a MMO.

That's false. As you are cherry picking one(or two) fight in ARR vs one(or two) fight in WoW to make a point that can be made anywhere, any game if given enough samples.

There is a lot of variations in ARR content. Only a very precious few are just bad. In fact the OP in this case hasn't even really did enough to give an honest opinion, as for a fact our tactics have totally blown SE's dev staff dozen of times.

T1 : There are at least 3 different types of tactics with the last one radically different. Heck the fact that wars was the "they suck" back in 2.0 proves that SE QC had prblems with our tactics.

T2: enough said

T4: on record the way we do it is totally not the way SE designed it. SE was baffled on how they used PLD's HG to bypass the dreds.

T5: ditch divebombs was never a legit tactic, nor is running into conflags(SE had to fix that) nor was chain stun dreds.

Garuda ex: totally not designed that way, as proven by 3 tank split
Titan ex: the only fight designed as played (though i wonder about that as stacking up his ass seems totally different then release videos)
Ifrit ex: semi designed well, but I bet it wasn't totally since we have 2-3 type of tactics to this day

The list goes on. None of the fight is really "rope jumping" more like band music. If someone screws up it's a chain reaction, but each song is played slightly differently with different imagination and different feel depending on the band.

In the end stop cherry picking things It's over playing the problem

Heck T6 LoS is totally bypassing mechanics, and while T7 is normal, T8's one tank is totally against dev policy (they enforce 2 tanks)

[Kuwagami]

Heck T6 LoS is totally bypassing mechanics, and while T7 is normal, T8's one tank is totally against dev policy (they enforce 2 tanks)

What to say about Ifrit Ex LoS or T9 solo tank/solo heal ?

And titan could be bugged under certain conditions in 2.0, and maybe 2.1 with Ex version having the same bug. You could make him fall from the edge and possibly kill him from above. (tested and semi realized on HM by friends for the fun back then. they failed their bait and thus had to all jump in order to make him fall after them). Totally hacked though There's no legit method to bypass any of his mechanics (except cover to prevent a MB stack maybe)

[blowfin]

On the topic of gating, what do people think of content being added into the Duty finder once it's already been rinsed by players in their statics and PF groups for 3-6 month? Frankly I think this ideology creates/facilitates a class divide in the playerbase and is unhealthy for the game. There are those who clear (and rinse) the content in the first patch cycle by virtue of having a static or a solid FC/LS, then there is everyone else. Once the content is added into duty finder it actually becomes HARDER to clear for players attempting it for the first time because there is a lack of experienced players who still want to do the content. The content has more than likely been outdated (hi2u EX primals), and people have their drops. Let me re-iterate that, because it's very important, PUGs in DF have a much harder time clearing content in Duty Finder than static groups and solid FC's/LS. Coil2 for example (even thought it's PF only), if you clear it in PF you're as tough as Chuck Norris, if you clear it in a static/FC/LS group you're merely a mild badass.

So, why not put everyone on a level playing field when the content is first released to foster more interaction in the community? Why is the content dished up on a plate to those with solid groups only? Why does this discrimination exist?

P.S. My reasoning for it would be firmly in the "artificially extending the life of content" box, but I'm interested to read people's thoughts on this.
P.P.S Echo once the content hits DF is a very bad band-aid fix for this issue, it's almost as if SE are quite happy to admit they're pro-actively segregating the community.