Current State of End-Game Contents - A Blog Post from A Japanese Player

[Litre]

If you're overwhelmed by the mechanics, get better gear or get better. That's what I do even though I know it'll take me forever because I know I suck.

Looks like you're new to this thread, please read this first if you want to have a meaningful discussion:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post2164220

But to summarize, and why your statement shows just how completely blind you are to the real issue at hand, which the OP is trying to address:

1. FFXIV uses mechanics like 100% of every game, yes true. And like you said, they use a certain kind of mechanics, being a telegraphed AOE which you need to move out of mostly. The issue the OP is trying to bring up is that, a fight is mostly determined by this dodging mechanic, more than any other mechanic.
2. Because some fights are more mechanics heavy, gear makes less of an impact on the fight, we have been referring to these fights as ones that have insta-death mechanics, fail to dodge = instant death. This completely negates any gear advantage, so your comment of "get better gear" won't help, if you fail to dodge X mechanic, you die, iLvl 70 or 110, doesn't matter. (the example in the OP is Twintania Divebombs, Landslide is another)

3.

or get better. That's what I do even though I know it'll take me forever because I know I suck.

As for this comment, I'd say good on you, that's great that you have the dedication and time to improve your skills and knowledge (memorizing fights) to beat these fights. But you can't assume everyone has that perseverance, time or even enjoys practicing and dying again and again to beat something.

This is where opinions diverge, one type of player (hardcore/some mainstream) players say, just like you, "that's your fault, get better or get out". And "get out" is exactly what they will do, they will find another game which they enjoy, that doesn't make them headbutt a giant obstacle and fail endlessly due to no fault of their own. This is what the OP is worried about, the OP doesn't care about players that are on coil, they're happy, we are worried about casual players and less skilled mainstream players.

But more understanding players realize that if we tell them all to get out, there will not be enough subscriptions to support FFXIV and it'll eventually fail because there won't be enough development money for FFXIV to compete with other MMOs. To this we are saying, when content is old, 2-3 months+, don't just give us echo boost, properly address the fights individually. For some fights like Titan, echo boost won't help you; in this case a more creative solution needs to be implemented.


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As for:

A lot of my friends feel the same and several have already moved on to WildStar so maybe that's where I'll peek next.

I agree with Bizniztyme, you'll get a wake up call because WildStar combat is FFXIV telegraphed AOE on steroids. But WildStar also has Exploration and Settler Paths, which are catered to the more casual crowd, which you may like. This is what FFXIV needs to do, offer content for casual players OR ease current content for casual players, or we will just bleed subs till the game is nothing but the hardcore/mainstream players. But if that's what people want, so be it, but there will be consequences.


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The example I like to remind people, is to think of a friend you know who likes to play RPGs on easy mode, that friend who levels up on the world map until he's 10+ levels stronger than the boss before going in. Even if you don't have a friend like that you can relate, there are casual gamers that don't necessarily like the challenge, nor the frustration that comes with it. They play games to relax and have fun, they want progression but don't care about being the best or joining a static. We have to be more accepting of these users, because that's where the development money comes from, like Yoshi said ~5% of players are passing T5, probably more now, but most players are doing other things and we need to ensure they are not being held to the same standards that the hardcore players are.

[Bizniztyme]

snip

I understand the OP just fine. I just don't agree with it. You can doom and gloom all you want. People will leave a game for all kinds of reasons. You going to tell me if SE caters to what you're asking, another group that doesn't like the change will not leave? It doesn't matter what they do, there will be a group of people that will not like it and leave. It's part of an MMORPG. So.....I will never agree with making anything forgiving just because people don't have the skill to beat something. You want players to be accepting to the kind of players you're talking about but you certainly are not accepting to the players that don't agree with your plea.

[OSUBuckeye4]

LOL Fights are 100% mechanics in any game ever created. It's the kind of mechanics they use that are different. Gear and stats helps you overcome the games mechanics. If you're overwhelmed by the mechanics, get better gear or get better. That's what I do even though I know it'll take me forever because I know I suck.

There is a huge difference between mechanics and scripts.


It's one thing to go into a battle knowing, "okay, there are 7 different skills that this boss can use that I have to watch out for".

It's an entirely different thing to go into a battle knowing, "allright, the boss is always going to use the same 7 moves in the same order... once it hits 70% it's going to add a mechanic, once it hits 30%, another mechanic will be added. All I have to do is move here when he uses this mechanic, move there when that mechanic is used, attack this when that mechanic happens... every time it's the same thing."


That's just not fun when it's the EXACT same thing EVERY single time. Especailly when a few of those scripted actions can one-shot kill people.

You're not testing a players skill at that point, you're just testing their ability to memorize patterns.

In the end, it ends up creating a ton of resentment within the playerbase because you have people who have run the content 50 times yelling at new players saying, "it's the same eff'ing pattern every time, what is so hard about that!"

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People keep mentinoing the word skill. There is almost no skill involved in this game when you take into account that most "top" players just watch Youtube guides en route to clearing content. It's all about memorizing patterns and execuiting the same rotation over and over again while popping the occasional cool-down. What is the skill in that?

Skill is mastering material and being able to apply it in practical situations. When something unexpected happens, you are able to overcome it because you have a mastery of the contect.

Memorizing patterns is the opposite of skill... it's just memorization.

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To everyone who doesn't watch videos and doesn't get help from people who have watched videos. I tip my hat to you, you have true skill. You are in a very small minority of the playerbase though.

I don't watch videos, but, inveriably any time I go into new content there is some "skilled" player who says, "hey... here is the pattern, just move here and do this and we will win"... or, they tell me, "watch the video and we can clear this".

Again, that's not skill. It's memorization and it's what is wrong with this game.

SE needs to stop catering to memorization when it comes to their "hard" content. Throw some curveballs in there and test true skill. Then again, that would be much harder to design than something that just runs on a loop over and over again.

[Litre]

I will never agree with making anything forgiving just because people don't have the skill to beat something. You want players to be accepting to the kind of players you're talking about but you certainly are not accepting to the players that don't agree with your plea.

Like I said, that's fine, you are free to hold your own opinion that the current content should remain as it is. And neither does the OP, or I care if some players don't want old content to be eased, as long as enough people agree with our plea, we can hope for change.


But the truth is, they already added Echo, so despite your disagreements, much to our relief Yoshi has is already trying to make things more forgiving.

And so the thing is, "we are not asking to make content more forgiving or not". We are saying, "if you're going to do it, do it properly!" They gave a blanket, one size fits all stats boost across the board for all these fights, when really what they need to do is address each fight and balance the dodge mechanics, or least make them survivable for 1 hit or something. And that's why I think you're not on the same topic as the rest of us.

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Actually all this could have been avoided if they didn't put the main scenario on the same path as these tougher fights, this funnels casual players who would rather not face these fights, into them! If coil was simply a side-story, was optional and was for players who wanted a challenge, that'd be all fine.
But it's too late to go back on that, all they can do is nerf the fights, which they have, and to that we're saying, you're nerfing the wrong way! The problem is the mechanics, not the stats, people don't need a stat boost, they need an "absorb one landslide" buff or knockback resistance buff or something to deal with the mechanics. 7000HP or 30000HP, you will die when you get knocked off, and face it lots of players can't multi-task and play consistently enough to dodge them all, neither do they have the time or are willing to put in the time to practice until they can.

So if you're going to force some casual players into mechanics heavy battles as part of the main storyline then you better eventually make them beatable by casual players, for now they are doing it wrong.

[Bizniztyme]

And so the thing is, "we are not asking to make content more forgiving or not". We are saying, "if you're going to do it, do it properly!" They gave a blanket, one size fits all stats boost across the board for all these fights, when really what they need to do is address each fight and balance the dodge mechanics, or least make them survivable for 1 hit or something. And that's why I think you're not on the same topic as the rest of us.

Again, I UNDERSTAND it just fine. I just will not agree with it because I think 1 shot mechanics are great for difficulty as you can see with all the complaining you guys are doing.

[Bizniztyme]

Again, that's not skill. It's memorization and it's what is wrong with this game.

SE needs to stop catering to memorization when it comes to their "hard" content. Throw some curveballs in there and test true skill. Then again, that would be much harder to design than something that just runs on a loop over and over again.

LOL, memorization is not a skill? Too funny. It's not just memorizing, you still have to execute. If people had true skill, we wouldn't have this topic in the first place. We'll be talking about how ARR is a cakewalk.

[OSUBuckeye4]

Again, I UNDERSTAND it just fine. I just will not agree with it because I think 1 shot mechanics are great for difficulty as you can see with all the complaining you guys are doing.

I have nothing against one shot mechanics.

Just don't make them scripted to occur at the exact same point in every fight. Or, if you're going to make the one shot mechanic scripted, that's fine... but, don't have all of the other mechanics on a script as well.

Let us demonstrate true skill and adaptability, not just run on a treadmill for 8-14 minutes and then get our little reward when we're done.


I hate the fact that I basically sleepwalk through Brayflox HM every night... I get to the boss and it's like, "okay, here we go again..." and it's the exact same pattern every night.

It's not rewarding, it's incredibly boring.

[Bizniztyme]

I have nothing against one shot mechanics.
Just don't make them scripted to occur at the exact same point in every fight. Or, if you're going to make the one shot mechanic scripted, that's fine... but, don't have all of the other mechanics on a script as well.
Let us demonstrate true skill and adaptability, not just run on a treadmill for 8-14 minutes and then get our little reward when we're done.

Dude, This would never fly in ffxiv. the amount of people that can't get past scripted fights and get stuck on fights where there are no surprises and very detailed walk throughs would have no chance beating some of theses bosses that could use all their moves when ever they wanted. Then they will be back here complaining even more. lol

[OSUBuckeye4]

Dude, This would never fly in ffxiv. the amount of people that can't get past scripted fights and get stuck on fights where there are no surprises and very detailed walk throughs would have no chance beating some of theses bosses that could use all their moves when ever they wanted. Then they will be back here complaining even more. lol

Obviously things would need to be tuned to adjust for this.

I'm not suggesting that SE put in the possiblity of Titan EX having the ability to use 5 mountain busters in a row, with the same tuning that the fight currently has. That would be impossible.

I'm just saying... maybe create additional possible scripts for Titan where Titan has a different pattern. Mix things up a bit. Ditto for the other hard bosses. I mean, they are suppose to be hard.

Just make it so that every darn time I go into that instance, it's not the exact same thing. It's boring. It's the opposite of challenging. The only challenge after you've run it 20 times, is finding 7 other people who have put in the work to memorize the pattern as well.

[Litre]

Great for difficulty sure, I love it too, I cleared T5 before echo and loved the challenge. The same does not apply for many players - we should not subject casual players to them. Definitely keep them in raids / coil etc