Current State of End-Game Contents - A Blog Post from A Japanese Player

[Pooky_Pasha]

It would be really interesting to get one group of 8 "hardcore" players, and another group of 8 "mainstream" players, and when 2.3 is released, have a real-time stream of the 2 parties in Ramuh-EX practicing to defeat it with no external apps or voice-chat. I would bet the amount of time required for each party to defeat it would be close to the same.

lol, that's cute. My money is on "hardcore" groups like Blue Garter in a landslide. They simply understand how mechanics work better and how to adapt to them much better and much quicker than the "mainstream" player. Plus they will probably maximize their individual role performances much better than the "mainstream" player. If you think otherwise, you're delusional.

Anyway, if someone can't see that there is some skill involved in maximizing individual job performances while handling whatever mechanics the fight throws at you, you're blind. There differences in overall performances between equally geared players on the same fight (and in every fight really) is way to vast. Whether it is from not being able to handle the fight mechanics as well, not being able to perform the job as well, or both, the skill differences are noticeable and are there.

[Pibz]

lol, that's cute. My money is on "hardcore" groups like Blue Garter in a landslide. They simply understand how mechanics work better and how to adapt to them much better and much quicker than the "mainstream" player. Plus they will probably maximize their individual role performances much better than the "mainstream" player. If you think otherwise, you're delusional.

Indeed, thinking people who clear content like EX primals the day they come out vs people who struggle with mechanics like landslide or whatever for months after it is released would be a fair match up is completely delusional.

[Bizniztyme]

My money is on "hardcore" groups like Blue Garter in a landslide. They simply understand how mechanics work better and how to adapt to them much better and much quicker than the "mainstream" player. Plus they will probably maximize their individual role performances much better than the "mainstream" player. If you think otherwise, you're delusional.

Anyway, if someone can't see that there is some skill involved in maximizing individual job performances while handling whatever mechanics the fight throws at you, you're blind. There differences in overall performances between equally geared players on the same fight (and in every fight really) is way to vast. Whether it is from not being able to handle the fight mechanics as well, not being able to perform the job as well, or both, the skill differences are noticeable and are there.

Yup, 8 hardcore players will put 8 mainstream players to shame because get this.......They gots more SKILLS.

[Amberion]

Yup, 8 hardcore players will put 8 mainstream players to shame because get this.......They gots more SKILLS.

While pressing left and right fast is a skill, I would say it's more for DDR like games. And I say that for one reason, your character has no influence on you getting out of danger. If your character can't improve/grow in a way that helps with doing something, it should not have such major part in winning or losing.

BTW, quoted you since I couldn't find the post I was looking for and yours was similar.

[Kuwagami]

If your character can't improve/grow in a way that helps with doing something, it should not have such major part in winning or losing.

heh, actually, it could be a good concept for meaningful korean-style grind.

Want more attack ? hit mobs till your attack goes up.
Want more hp ? serve as a meat shield long enough
want more speed to balance poor reaction time ? go marathonian style and run across the world for a long time.

You can see it as FF2 grind maybe.

Classes/jobs then would only give advantages for some stats (ie, PLD's growth in HP and defense would be 3 times faster than other non tank classes, while its healing potency would have a 1.25 ratio. On a same basis, BLM would have a 2 ratio on scepters & wands, 1.5 ratio on rods, 0.1 ratio on axes ?). Would be fun. Really hard to balance before the launch, but it would give a real sense of personalization. Want a tank swinging a wand and able to burn his enemies ? Sure you can, you'll just grind 100 times more than the one who does the pre-set grind.

[Raenryong]

3) I did not say that they offered "no challenge", but "false difficulty", in the sense which all challenge disappears the moment you know the dance. There is a difference.

What skill is involved in making every boss a training dummy? FFXI was ridiculously, absurdly easy due to this.

Dealing damage to enemies is one of the basis of a MMORPG. You could have to solve a jumping puzzle every minute to be able to continue the fight that this basis wouldn't change. Yet, dealing with the mechanics of xx can't help you for the mechanics of yy, because they are totally different.

Depends how pedantic you're being. Dealing with conflagrations you could argue won't directly prepare you for anything but conflagrations, while I would argue that it teaches you transferable skills - quick target swapping, preparing yourself beforehand (you want your Straight Shot buff already up, as well as Venomous Bite and Windbite on Twintania when they pop for maximum damage as a Bard, for example), raid awareness and how to maximise your DPS within a 4-5 GCD window, preparing cooldowns if necessary.

Things like Landslides teach you how to DPS while moving and not to overreact, and if you're a BLM for instance, it also tests when you should move and when you should cast, for instance.

The vast majority of mechanics teach you transferable skills. Being able to deal with conflagrations effectively prepares you for Dark Matter Hornets and Dark Matter Slugs in T6 for example.

[Bizniztyme]

Wow, people are really arguing it doesn't take skill to beat those fights? LOL too funny. In that case, I should be able to beat any fight I join with ease because I'm the most unskillful person to play this game. You can memorize (it's a skill by the way) and watch videos of the fights all you want but if you can't execute, you got no skills and I'm the first to admit I got no skills but I sure as hell will keep on trying to get better.

[mikoto_qc]

Im between hardcore and casual. i clear the content and get bored of the Learning only mechanics of this game. + the attitude of players with the one fail = kick. thats simply why i quit. Yoshi failled me with V2.0 as a V1 player i miss that old time eorzea.

[Litre]

Totally agree with Sylkis, glad we're getting back to topic again. This thread is about how fights are eased over time to be more accessible by less "skilled" players.

I know there was a big discussion about skills earlier, but it's all semantics. To me, memorization is a skill, which helps a lot. Another skill that's absolutely required by mechanics based fights is multi-tasking, not only are we jumping rope but we are DPSing/healing/tanking as well, it's easy to forget the next incoming attack when you're juggling multiple tasks. And it doesn't need to be said, that many casual players simply do not have that capacity to multi-task at the level that's required for many fights in the game. If they practiced and practiced maybe, but these are not the type of players (well most) that enjoy being thrown against the brick wall, they will go play something more enjoyable.


Therefore eventually the required level of skill/memorization/multi-tasking needs to decline, and this is only possible by modifying insta-death mechanics in ways Sylkis described so that in the long run gear can make enough of a difference so that failing to dodge a few mechanics can still be recoverable.


Also too many people are failing to grasp the change we are asking for, we are not asking for FFXIV - Easy Mode, we are asking that 2-3+ month old content be eased to a point where players without the time to rehearse the script to perfection can beat it. We are saying that insta-death mechanics are merely balanced to be insta-death now, but not insta-death later. So mechanics should never be guaranteed death, but just so much damage it'd be impossible to survive it when the content is released, the game is largely unchanged for the hardcore players and eventually by the time the casual players reach that content it's easy enough for them.