Current State of End-Game Contents - A Blog Post from A Japanese Player

[Litre]

See ya!

See ya too ^^

I don't need to force myself and progress and stress over it. If there is a roadblock there that stops the people I play with from progressing I can do my best to pull more weight or simply accept that the roadblock is there and the party will eventually break and all I can do is simply put that time into something else which is what I've been doing. I didn't have much to do between 2.2-2.28 once I finished my Animus outside of that all I had was beast tribe dailies and soldiery farm then nothing but free time for me to play other games inbetween.

Ya but people hitting a roadblock, then playing less and less because they're frustrated and see no way around that roadblock is exactly the problem we're trying to address. And it sounds like you have personal experience with that, so in cases like this I rather these players see something on the horizon that lets them know that eventually, at their skill level they will be able to clear that content.

It might take a bit more work (ATMA farming, farming gil for better gear/materia, etc) but eventually! Right now there is no light at the end of the tunnel for these guys, and they'll leave, there's plenty of MMOs out there, but I don't want to see FFXIV fail. Now with the JP post the OP translated, seeing the agreement and constructive arguments here, I have a renewed sense of optimism, that heck if we're making a big deal out of this on both sides of the pacific, maybe they'll listen.

And once again we're not asking for drastic changes, we are asking for a balancing of some mechanics, "mechanics" that insta-kill now should still be "mechanics" that insta-kill now, but one day with proper gear they "won't insta-kill". So maybe they become auto-dodgable, or when you have a certain iLvl they should do 25% less damage/knockback whatever. If casual players knew that, they would be a lot more eager to reach that iLvl/dodge skill and try again.

[Gormogon]

Ya but people hitting a roadblock, then playing less and less because they're frustrated and see no way around that roadblock is exactly the problem we're trying to address. And it sounds like you have personal experience with that, so in cases like this I rather these players see something on the horizon that lets them know that eventually, at their skill level they will be able to clear that content.

That I agree with and I stated it in the start of this thread that one of the ways to address this issue is to simply make separate content as long as it gets released evenly and consistently with the other content.

I simply stated my personal experience because I know I can cope with it but I agree expecting others to do so as well, since money is involved, wont work out so well. There's no consistent gain but constant delay in trying to address that demograph of players.

It might take a bit more work (ATMA farming, farming gil for better gear/materia, etc) but eventually! Right now there is no light at the end of the tunnel for these guys, and they'll leave, there's plenty of MMOs out there, but I don't want to see FFXIV fail. Now with the JP post the OP translated, seeing the agreement and constructive arguments here, I have a renewed sense of optimism, that heck if we're making a big deal out of this on both sides of the pacific, maybe they'll listen.

Yeah there isn't. There's many ways to address this easier but the issue will always arise that those "hardcore" players and especially "elitist" are not gonna enjoy seeing casual and mainstream players get loot because they don't deem that they deserve it and it's an impossible issue to tackle because they wont compromise. As far as I've noticed the majority end up agreeing with "get good or take a hike" and that's a bad mentality to have since it kills communities.

And once again we're not asking for drastic changes, we are asking for a balancing of some mechanics, "mechanics" that insta-kill now should still be "mechanics" that insta-kill now, but one day with proper gear they "won't insta-kill". So maybe they become auto-dodgable, or when you have a certain iLvl they should do 25% less damage/knockback whatever. If casual players knew that, they would be a lot more eager to reach that iLvl/dodge skill and try again.

One of the simplest solutions would be to have some way to "nerf" bosses or "buff" a group.

As an example lets say that in turn 6 there were 2 paths which the group can take instead of going straight for Rafflesia. 1 of them buffs the group, akin to giving echo. The other you simply block the bee's from appearing or there's a way to get Rafflesia to lose those devour stacks.

The downside is that it take time as one would need to deviate from the path to go tackle those optional objectives and they only last for a certain amount of time. Aside from taking longer to start the boss fight you also get penalized by losing a piece of loot in the process.

Yet I doubt this idea will swing. Since those hardcore will feel like gear is being handed to bad players. Yet it's just an idea to try and address the issue. Sadly there needs to be a way to get "hardcore" and especially "elitist" to come to terms in agreeing with something justifiable.

[Kuwagami]

I love how you apologize like you're being hurtful.

It's called being polite

LEARNING?

What is there to learn in a tank and spank?

WHAT!?

Aiatar (Brayflox story mode) is a tank and spank fight. Yet there are a few gimmicks to know (OMG poison pools, gotta move)

On a certain extent, Ultima is also a tank and spank. HM version has a tank swap, and there are a few things to dodge, but mostly you just hit a dummy while some shit happens around. Especially in the phase with no primal power.

Tank and spank isn't necessarily a joke. Mobs usually hit really hard and you have to keep up with tanking, healing and dealing enough dps to get the shit done before no mp/CDs left. And at equal gear the fight remains hard no matter how many time you did it.

Ya I don't agree with the OPs suggestions, but the issues he brought up are too true to ignore. We are going to bleed players to Wildstar and the likes unless we do something to appease the casual/mainstream players stuck on Titan or whatever. Making content more accessible over time through something more comprehensive than just echo buffs is a start.

from what I can see, wildstar is trying to become "the most hardcore raid game ever" with..... only insta death mechanics. FFXIv has nothing to worry about losing people bored of the system to wildstar

[AiChyan]

Respect lost to the OP AND the translator and those who agree with this post.

I'm not even sorry.

No one is sorry you don't respect them really

[Litre]

No, he's purely trolling, probably the first of a flood of players since maintenance began... The game is successful ---> therefore it is perfect ---> nothing needs to be changed... Haha love that rational reasoning right! It's ok for him, therefore it must be ok for everyone, since he is the only person in the world!

Anyways back to the topic, please remember and read carefully the OP msg, that many of you are biased based on your skill level, there is already a noticeable exodus of players, if not players leaving, just players playing less and less, nobody cares anymore. The hardcore players are unhappy because they can't help other players and there's no fruits for their labor, and the casuals are unhappy because there are mechanics roadblocks they can't pass easily.


Then there's a bunch of mainstream players who either enjoy it as it currently is, likely because there is still doable content they can clear and have yet to. Or are slowly getting frustrated by wiping from honest mistakes by other players, with no chance of salvaging the fight. Especially as they start farming some primals or early coil, where mechanics become even more unforgiving.


If they don't add more content that casual players can access, or at the very least content that mainstream players can help casual players with, there will be no community to keep them from finding a more accessible game.

[Gormogon]

Anyways back to the topic, please remember and read carefully the OP msg, that many of you are biased based on your skill level, there is already a noticeable exodus of players, if not players leaving, just players playing less and less, nobody cares anymore. The hardcore players are unhappy because they can't help other players and there's no fruits for their labor, and the casuals are unhappy because there are mechanics roadblocks they can't pass easily.

If they don't add more content that casual players can access, or at the very least content that mainstream players can help casual players with, there will be no community to keep them from finding a more accessible game.

Totally.

Yet one of the things I learned from the other MMO's I've played is that all that hard work amounts to nothing. Replacing a group of friends just to play with another more skilled and capable group of individuals that may or may not become your friends isn't really gratifying for me. It was simply just another experience with a different group, akin to having a change of class the following semester and not being put in the same class room with your actual long term friends.

I don't need to force myself and progress and stress over it. If there is a roadblock there that stops the people I play with from progressing I can do my best to pull more weight or simply accept that the roadblock is there and the party will eventually break and all I can do is simply put that time into something else which is what I've been doing. I didn't have much to do between 2.2-2.28 once I finished my Animus outside of that all I had was beast tribe dailies and soldiery farm then nothing but free time for me to play other games inbetween.

[Dashuto]

This is the most well thought-out post I have read on these forums, and while I still enjoy the game much, I believe the OP is correct.

Something has always felt off to me about these save-or-die mechanics. The inability to compensate for weakness or recover outright feels minimal, and the ilvl can feel very pointless compared to the mechanics. Echo and Titan EX is proof of this.

[Litre]

I don't think gear needs to be handed down to bad players, there are many ways to make even second coil accessible, but that won't need to be addressed for a while. But yes in general, more creative solutions need to be made to address accessibility of content, instead of just, give them an echo boost! Which failed spectacularily, give them gear progression paths that take longer but do eventually make it possible to clear the content.

I think the hardcore should always get the best gear of course, the other players just need to wait, and when they get access to that gear, the hardcore should be at the next tier. Totally fine, anyone arguing that is going into the whole "I paid for this so I should get everything" entitlement argument, which is just not how MMOs work. But I am of the belief that most casual/mainstream players understand this and don't care if they have the best gear, as long as they have something to aim for and a concrete path to follow.

[Ooshima]

I don't think gear needs to be handed down to bad players, there are many ways to make even second coil accessible, but that won't need to be addressed for a while. But yes in general, more creative solutions need to be made to address accessibility of content, instead of just, give them an echo boost! Which failed spectacularily, give them gear progression paths that take longer but do eventually make it possible to clear the content.

I think the hardcore should always get the best gear of course, the other players just need to wait, and when they get access to that gear, the hardcore should be at the next tier. Totally fine, anyone arguing that is going into the whole "I paid for this so I should get everything" entitlement argument, which is just not how MMOs work. But I am of the belief that most casual/mainstream players understand this and don't care if they have the best gear, as long as they have something to aim for and a concrete path to follow.

Ooshima, totally agree, pacing is key, hard content should stay hard for a long time, if that content ever becomes nerfed to a certain point it's accessible by mainstream players there must be something just as hard and exciting to replace it for the hardcore players. Coil 2 ya should not be nerfed for a while.

It's just that Titan EX has been around for months and is unnecessarily frustrating, I just hate to see FFXIV lose players because of it.

One thing that begs to be reiterated, there are players that will NEVER clear Primals EX, second coil, or even turn 5 before echo at their skill level. But I respect them, they have jobs, or are new to MMOs, or both so they don't have the time to be good at games. Many of us grew up playing games so it's unfair to say "just practice" some may like the challenge others won't find it fun at all. They will always progress behind the rest of us players, beating content at the eased difficulty, and so things need to be balanced properly and at a proper pace.

I think our exchanges have come to some sort of agreement I agree with whatever you've just said. I think Yoshida does have a good intention in mind but probably the ideas and execution needs further refinement, definitely. I can understand players getting impatient and sometimes I get impatient at certain things too, but sometimes I look back again and see that ARR is just under one year, I can cut them some slack, maybe. Not trying to be SE's White Knight (I won't bother because some things really sucks about them which my #1 complain is server inconsistency and lag and 90k) but I think Yoshida was given a daunting task to overturn the fortune of FF14 1.0 to what it is right now, in quite a short period of time, while gathering feedback and implement as much QoL improvements and changes as he could afford to, in his own judgement. As I said earlier, I would give them more time in view of this, but of course after a year or two it's still the same old methods then I think it's something really worth complaining to the max

[Gormogon]

I don't think gear needs to be handed down to bad players, there are many ways to make even second coil accessible, but that won't need to be addressed for a while. But yes in general, more creative solutions need to be made to address accessibility of content, instead of just, give them an echo boost! Which failed spectacularily, give them gear progression paths that take longer but do eventually make it possible to clear the content.

I think the hardcore should always get the best gear of course, the other players just need to wait, and when they get access to that gear, the hardcore should be at the next tier. Totally fine, anyone arguing that is going into the whole "I paid for this so I should get everything" entitlement argument, which is just not how MMOs work. But I am of the belief that most casual/mainstream players understand this and don't care if they have the best gear, as long as they have something to aim for and a concrete path to follow.

I'm totally looking forward to how end game raiding gets address in 2.3. With CT2, new primals, new classes/jobs, and if the limit break revamp makes it out by 2.3 how that will impact T6-T9. I feel more optimistic from all these options over Novus.

Yet as far as Coil 3 goes. I hope the cycle we experienced in Coil and Coil 2 don't repeat again.