Changing Titan Ex Echo

[peaches]

You don't find challenging content fun? If there is no challenge then what is the point in doing it at all? If anybody could just waltz in there for the first time and down it no problem then there is literally no point in that content. No challenge, no accomplishment, no fun.

Why not just have an open meadow where you walk to the other end and they hand you loot? This isn't said as an attack at you - to me that is what content with no challenge is like. In the easy content, the enemies and bosses are nothing more than an inconvenient speedbump slowing your progress to reach the end. No accomplishment for beating it when you finally down it after a week or two of learning the fight with your friends. No satisfaction of being able to perfectly dodge everything that is thrown at you meant to absolutely destroy you, because you finally know it like the back of your hand. You've figured out the patterns, know when, where, and how to move, you know how large that explosion radius is. I imagine it'd be similar to the sense of accomplishment and satisfaction when you are finally able to perfectly perform some crazy complex dance, some insanely awesome maneuver or trick in a car/bicycle/skateboard/skis/snowboard/or what ever.

I know people like to play easy games now and then to relax or what ever. I do too sometimes. I'll load up Fallout or something like that, roam the world and shoot some baddies all the while exploring some awesome places. Lately that game for me has been Watch Dogs. But there needs to be difficult content in an MMO, or else the game dies. The entire servers beats the new content in the first day and farms all the loot in a week and has no reason to continue playing. The easy content in this game are FATEs and dungeons.

I understand people find this fight difficult. It IS completely unforgiving. Fail to move out of the bombs? Dead. Fail to move out of landslide or weight of the land? Dead. Don't kill the gaols in time? Dead. Don't kill the adds in the right place? You're probably as good as dead as well.

The difficulty for these people comes from a few things I imagine. First is lag, and NO this has NOTHING to do with people's internet connection. Upgrading your internet won't help at ALL unless you're still using dial-up or something. The issue is with SE. I'm not sure if it's where their servers are located, but I know a large part of it is that EVERYTHING is synced up to their servers instead of being calculated on your computer like literally EVERY other MMO I've played. Another issue is that a lot of people playing this game work or go to school full time, leaving them little time to spend looking for a FC or group of good friends to practice with. Or even the time to practice at it at all. It took me 40 mins to find a Duty Finder queue for Titan Ex as a healer. It can take as long in the Party Finder.

The thing that helped me the most is being on Vent or what ever with my teammates. If somebody knows the fight, they can call out when things are going to happen and where you should move. This helps you familiarize yourself with the fight on a personal level that you just can't get from watching a video. Yes a video helps prepare you but you need to experience it yourself. I think with the people that just can't seem to learn the fight on their own by trying it a few times and failing without understanding why would really benefit from this. Whether or not you participate in the chat (I don't bother, I just listen in and type out any questions I may have) doesn't matter. Just being able to hear someone directing you, helping you learn it helps immensely.

That was my biggest issue for a while. I'd get past one phase and get to the next and die nearly instantly. No time to figure out what I did wrong or what I could do differently because I didn't know what I did wrong. For me, the issue was not knowing the bombs had a MUCH larger explosion radius, and not knowing that during the Superbombs and when Titan jumps you have to be on the very very edge to survive with gear under i90. I'd just die and be wondering WTF happened.

I say this in every Titan Ex I join; They should replace Echo with Bumper. The only thing that makes Titan Ex difficult is that people fall off, causing everyone to just get demoralized and chant "wipe."

Honestly, that usually isn't the problem the people in my Party Finder groups have. Sure it happens to one or two people every 5 or so attempts, but generally it's people dying from avoidable damage multiple times to the point where there's no point rezzing them, as they'll just die to stomps, Titan jumping, or anything really. And with the amount of healing that needs to go out I don't have the MP to raise 6+ times before the heart.

[FritoBandito]

You don't find challenging content fun? If there is no challenge then what is the point in doing it at all? If anybody could just waltz in there for the first time and down it no problem then there is literally no point in that content. No challenge, no accomplishment, no fun.

I absolutely LOVE the first fight with Ultima Weapon. It's still one of my favorite fights in the game. It's also pretty easy, despite the many hoops players have to jump through to win. Sometimes a fight can be very easy, but also very fun because of the mechanics and the things you have to do. Gilgamesh is another example. Very fun fight, and really not that difficult!

Not everyone finds challenge to be synonymous with fun. In addition, lack of challenge does not equal lack of purpose.

[R1dder]

Not everyone finds challenge to be synonymous with fun. In addition, lack of challenge does not equal lack of purpose.

Then what's the point of calling it extreme? Just call it "Titan hillarious" and everyone can have tons of fun killing an easy boss and get end-game gear.
It's suppose to get more difficult the further in the game you get. There is a large gap between hardcore and casual gamers, if you took that away from the
hc gamers then what are they suppose to do? - Soon as you get what you want with Titan it's gonna be something else that is too hard and you want that nerfed as well.

[Madoka]

Win before you get echo, problem solved.

[FritoBandito]

snip

I think you missed my point. I wasn't saying there should be no content for the hardcore players.

My post was in response to the person I quoted who basically said "It's not fun if there's no challenge, if there's no challenge there's no purpose." My point was ultimately that their statement should have been something more like "I personally don't find it fun if there's no challenge, and if there's no challenge I have no reason to do it."

[peaches]

I absolutely LOVE the first fight with Ultima Weapon. It's still one of my favorite fights in the game. It's also pretty easy, despite the many hoops players have to jump through to win. Sometimes a fight can be very easy, but also very fun because of the mechanics and the things you have to do. Gilgamesh is another example. Very fun fight, and really not that difficult!

Not everyone finds challenge to be synonymous with fun. In addition, lack of challenge does not equal lack of purpose.

I actually found Ultima to be very difficult as a healer, to the point where I would rather heal Titan Ex. Most players weren't able to deal with the last set of bomb thingys that you had to LB if you weren't insanely coordinated.

I understand that not everyone finds challenge fun, but that doesn't mean your end game shouldn't be challenging. There needs to be difficult end game content or people will either ignore that content once then down it and farm the loot, or move on to another game if there is nothing left to beat, no gear to obtain.

I would actually argue that fights without challenge or usefulness in gear have no purpose. There is upcoming content with no gear, just for bragging rights. I'm sure people will flock to it, then drop it once it's beaten a few times. Your example of Ultima being fun is a great one actually. I didn't bother with the fight after I downed it a few times once I learned there was no gear my main could use from it. The stats were useless to me. I'd only do it to help friends or something. I took a few months break, so fast forward to now and I NEVER see people in the Party Finder for it because there's no reason to other than for fun. And while it IS a lotta fun, it's only fun a few times.

The real "content" in MMOs comes from farming a dungeon/boss/raid for the gear (now whether or not MMOs should focus on that aspect needs it's own thread). People will farm Moogle Ex 50+ times for the gear, or Levi Ex for the gear and mirror. A fight people find fun as hell like Gilgamesh and Ultima people will do until they learn how to beat it, then probably do it a max of 10 times after that in the next few weeks, and after that period, maybe once or twice a month.

[Fawkes]

You don't find challenging content fun? If there is no challenge then what is the point in doing it at all? If anybody could just waltz in there for the first time and down it no problem then there is literally no point in that content. No challenge, no accomplishment, no fun.

I think the most fun I've had in FFXIV so far was the Battle on the Big Bridge. And I can't even comprehend how you'd wipe to that.

Can you honestly say if you were doing Trial Roulette you'd be hoping you get a Titan HM with a bunch of first-timers over Gilgamesh? That somehow dying over and over is making it more fun than winning in one go?

[peaches]

I think the most fun I've had in FFXIV so far was the Battle on the Big Bridge. And I can't even comprehend how you'd wipe to that.

Can you honestly say if you were doing Trial Roulette you'd be hoping you get a Titan HM with a bunch of first-timers over Gilgamesh? That somehow dying over and over is making it more fun than winning in one go?

I do love it when I get Gilgamesh in roulette, mostly because I never do it anymore. But to be completely honest... I love getting Titan HM in roulette, and it is fun as hell when it's mostly first timers. Sure, most of the party wipes. But if there's even one decently geared DPS who can dodge everything like I can, me him and the tank do the fight by ourselves. I've done this at least 5 or 6 times so far in the past 2-3 weeks (I get Titan HM almost every day in roulette). Solo healing that fight, rezzing as many people as I can, while one DPS and the tank whittle down Titan is awesome, especially at then end when you win and all the first timers are stunned, don't know wth just happened or how we beat Titan with 3 people.

*edit cause of the ridiculous 1000 char limit

[Darksword]

And what is your solution to tanking Titan, and to seeing him turn to use triple-Landslide, and to go flying off the edge to the bottom before he has even cocked his arm back as the animation suddenly fast forwards at 10X normal speed?

Or to be moving before plume circles even appear, to be at the edge of the arena with all the circles in the center, and to die instantly as 6 or 7 damage numbers fly above your head, indicating you ate them all?

Or to the entire fight suddenly freezing on your screen for three seconds. You can move, but where do you move to? When the fight resumes moving, you're already at the bottom.

[Raenryong]

snip

The solution is to fix your internet. If your problems are that bad, then you're going to fail mechanics in all sorts of fights, and you can hardly expect SE to trivialise content on the off chance your internet is horrendous.