Changing Titan Ex Echo

[Tiggy]

I'm sure some people have connection problems from time to time, but it's funny that it's always during a Titan Ex "kill party" when people suddenly start lagging and dying to every mechanic.

This fight has a tendency to show off lag problems more than any other fight in the game as well has having issues drawing on lower end machines which many users would also call lag. So it's not surprising when this suddenly happens only during Titan Ex parties.

I have literally been standing between two landslides waiting for the animation to disappear when I got knocked off. Lag does happen. The "this only happens during titan" crap needs to stop too. You're just assuming people are full of it completely unfairly.

[Iriadysa]

This fight has a tendency to show off lag problems more than any other fight in the game as well has having issues drawing on lower end machines which many users would also call lag. So it's not surprising when this suddenly happens only during Titan Ex parties.

I have literally been standing between two landslides waiting for the animation to disappear when I got knocked off. Lag does happen. The "this only happens during titan" crap needs to stop too. You're just assuming people are full of it completely unfairly.

I play on a 5 year old computer and a DSL connection that is far from the ideal SNR, across the Atlantic sea.

Do people "lag"? Yes, of course. Some people probably have a latency of over half a second. No online game with any kind of action should be oriented to cater these connections because they do not represent the norm. FFXIV already dumbed down its content enough to cater to higher latencies due to their decision of having only two data center locations.

Every single Titan Ex PF I've done has at least one person claiming they lag to the point where they cannot even dodge the most simple mechanics that don't even require a low latency line to dodge. You don't freaking need 50ms latency to dodge a landslide because:


1. You know exactly when it's coming. Exactly when it's coming
2. You know exactly where it's going to be. People stack behind Titan's ass, so the dodge patter is always the same.


Same applies to pools:

1. You know the exact moment they are going to happen
2. You can see the danger zones beforehand because you can observe the exact positions of the rest of your party members and know where the shortest route to safety goes through.


Excluding the people that actually have technical problems with their connection, what "I'm lagging" tells me is that the player cannot adapt or, what's worse, is not willing to adapt.

Titan Ex is not hard.

[Tiggy]

1. You know exactly when it's coming. Exactly when it's coming
2. You know exactly where it's going to be. People stack behind Titan's ass, so the dodge patter is always the same.


Same applies to pools:

1. You know the exact moment they are going to happen
2. You can see the danger zones beforehand because you can observe the exact positions of the rest of your party members and know where the shortest route to safety goes through.

I have literally been standing between two landslides waiting for the animation to disappear when I got knocked off. I knew it was coming. On my screen I dodged it just fine. I got knocked off regardless. Bolding those statements does not change that it does not explain all scenarios at all. Lag whether network or drawing lag does happen, does get people killed, and that doesn't change just because you're one of the people repeating the "you know exactly when it's coming" mantra.

Titan Ex has sold more WTFast accounts than anything else. Every player I knew who had crippling lag on this fight had it greatly resolved through this app's use. Is that a coincidence? I think not.

[Iriadysa]

I have literally been standing between two landslides waiting for the animation to disappear when I got knocked off. I knew it was coming. On my screen I dodged it just fine. I got knocked off regardless. Bolding those statements does not change that it does not explain all scenarios at all. Lag whether network or drawing lag does happen, does get people killed, and that doesn't change just because you're one of the people repeating the "you know exactly when it's coming" mantra.

Titan Ex has sold more WTFast accounts than anything else. Every player I knew who had crippling lag on this fight had it greatly resolved through this app's use. Is that a coincidence? I think not.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/anecdotal

Read it and understand why your argument holds no ground.

I already acknowledged some people may have technical problems. A game that is meant to have any kind of action in it should not try to cater to them, because it defeats the original purpose.

Edit:

I can explain your specific case in three ways:

A. Your connection has an abnormal latency. By abnormal I mean you are probably running 400ms+.
B. Your computer is not correctly configured. If you use a PC for gaming, disabling the nagle's algorythm is really one of the first things you should do. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagle%27s_algorithm It's your machine, take care of it.
C. You don't understand how the game works. The game, by design (sadly), has delayed action execution when it comes to monster animations and their effects. Everything in game has the problem I'm about to explain in detail, to the exception of Meteor (as far as I know):

An enemy's action is split in two phases: casting and activation. Some actions don't have a casting phase (for example an enemy's auto attack). Some casting phases are shown as a casting bar, as it is the case of Weight of the Land but some don't show it at all, which is the case with landslide. However, there is a casting phase regardless: when Titan rises his fist after turning around.

The activation phase occurs as soon as the casting phase finishes and it includes, usually, yet another animation. For Weight of the Land this is Titan slamming his fists together or for Landslide this is Titan slamming his fist on the ground and creating a shockwave of rocks.

By the time the activation phase starts the server has already decided if you got hit or not, however you are still allowed to take actions at this point. You can still move, you can still cast. In fact, it's even possible to technically land a spell after you died due to this strange effect.

In the case of landslide, it means that while the game already registered you as hit by Landslide, the effect has yet to be applied to you and you can still move around. This is why you often times see people flying to the sides of the arena instead of towards the direction the landslide actually hit.

This is not lag, this is just a poor implementation of visual cues and I keep meeting people that don't understand, despite 50 levels of dungeons, that this is how the game works.

[Tiggy]

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/anecdotal

Read it and understand why your argument holds no ground.

I already acknowledged some people may have technical problems. A game that is meant to have any kind of action in it should not try to cater to them, because it defeats the original purpose.

It may be an anecdote when you read it, but as I personally experienced it I can assure you it was fact. Just brushing it away as an anecdote doesn't change the fact that it happened to me, I know it's happened to other people, and it will happen again. Enough anecdotes that all agree with one another eventually becomes an observation that should be acknowledged. Your "omg why are people claiming lag" attitude doesn't help at all in the face of that. Even if only 5% of the community is affected it doesn't change that this happens, and it's not just players whining because they screwed up. Acting all surprising and trying to claim that people should just know the rotations won't change the fact that you're obviously making assumptions that it's just people screwing up. Acknowledging people have technical issues means nothing when you specifically say

You don't freaking need 50ms latency to dodge a landslide because:


1. You know exactly when it's coming. Exactly when it's coming
2. You know exactly where it's going to be. People stack behind Titan's ass, so the dodge patter is always the same.

You can't acknowledge that some people have problems but in the same breadth act like it shouldn't be an issue at all. Packet loss makes your entire point null and void anyway.

The main point I want to make comes down to this. Some people do have network and computer problems. When you have the attitude that it should be easy just knowing the rotations then you have an attitude based entirely on false assumptions based on nothing more than your own personal experiences (see your own link for anecdotes), and we all know what happens when you make assumptions. I have no doubt some people use lag as an excuse, but assuming that they all are is an outright fallacy.

[Iriadysa]

You can't acknowledge that some people have problems but in the same breadth act like it shouldn't be an issue at all. Packet loss makes your entire point null and void anyway.

No, packet loss makes your point null. Thing is, packet loss is not the lowest denominator an online video game should be based on, because packet loss is a symptom of a poor connection.

The whole argument here is "my net lags, nerf Titan". My point is "if your net is lagging to the point where Titan is literally impossible to beat, you have bigger problems than not beating Titan".

[Luxx]

This "I'm lagging" crap needs to stop.

And there's people playing with the ideal ping and still falling I'm not sure my ping on PS3 but I be the first to move [and I'll be like right on the line of his slide] and I'm still hit. Somethings wrong here. I never have lag problems or moving out AoE's everywhere else. So I dunno what's going on when it comes down to Titan in all modes.

Well, only one thing to do. Follow our BFF Yoshi's advice: Zoom your camera out!

[Statrix]

I don't really understand what people want. A game playable at 300+ms? That would become a ridiculous joke for everyone else. Honestly, if you ask me, the lag is in their heads.

The game is perfectly playable with 300+ latency too. Titan ex wasn't much of a problem once I knew the fight getting 330ms from South Africa, and I was rarely(< 3%) the one to mess up. Like you said, the only time I died is if I moved into the wrong direction for a landslide because of one member being an outlier.

I understand people having routing problems, but I honestly think that they just need to react quicker if it is possible for me to do it while getting routed across the world.

Also, nerfing the fight with echo is a ridiculous idea. Titan will be a complete walk in the park. A few invested hours in this fight makes you adept enough to be 99% consistent-It is fine as is.

[Lemon8or]

I don't get how echo is turning Titan EX into Titan HM. You still have to deal with Titan EX's mechanics like it's originally intended to. Echo just helps you focus on the mechanics instead of having to do that while also outputting respectable DPS. Echo also help pushing phases faster where certain mechanics might be the killer like the circle bomb + landslide during heart phase for my FC. You just have to deal with the increased DPS by estimating when titan is going to jump and adjust accordingly. FYI, you don't need to run to the edge of the arena for Gaol, just far enough that it breaks the chain.

[Fawkes]

I think they should change the slow increase of the echo and make it all or nothing, since the first few stacks are basically a placebo and don't actually help. At least then people wouldn't have to wipe five times and be completely demoralized by the time they get the actual buff.

Changing the mechanics could be a lot of messy work. Maybe they could just add something like a deadly boss mods kind of thing to tell me when things are about to happen more clearly and directly, or just put an indicator to show me where to stand at certain points.

At the very least, they should make a "training mode" that I can enter solo and have a party of NPCs who all dodge correctly, so I can practice without having to waste 7 other people's time.