I don't understand...

[Double]

snip

It happens more than often enough to strike a cord with a good number of people.

I fully understand you will run into mean people. It's the way of life; not everyone is all sunny day and happy smiles however it's becoming more and more clear that an awful lot of people here either lack serious social skills or has a hard time dealing with others.

I'm not asking for people to just shut up and play the game because that was never my intention. I'm asking now is; why so much hate within your own community?

This thread basically tells me that the OP doesn't like the way he sees most players play because he doesn't believe Players playing a certain way within potential successful runs is acceptable.

That type of thinking is ridiculous and unrealistic and it's amazing how serious some are taking it, further proving the point of "Entitlement Era".

[Kerberon]

because he doesn't believe Players playing a certain way within potential successful runs is acceptable.

That type of thinking is ridiculous and unrealistic and it's amazing how serious some are taking it, further proving the point of "Entitlement Era".

There is a sliding scale but it isn't. There is an eventual line where even if the group succeeded, a players gameplay may not have been acceptable because they played so poorly that they might as well have not been there. At this point they're not different than a player that is afk, and they are just being carried by people that did not sign up to carry others but to play as members of a team. You are on the exact opposite side of the argument as a rager that berates someone playing poorly, but both you and the rager are equally in the wrong.

[RegnumMagik]

It happens more than often enough to strike a cord with a good number of people.

I fully understand you will run into mean people. It's the way of life; not everyone is all sunny day and happy smiles however it's becoming more and more clear that an awful lot of people here either lack serious social skills or has a hard time dealing with others.

I'm not asking for people to just shut up and play the game because that was never my intention. I'm asking now is; why so much hate within your own community?

This thread basically tells me that the OP doesn't like the way he sees most players play because he doesn't believe Players playing a certain way within potential successful runs is acceptable.

That type of thinking is ridiculous and unrealistic and it's amazing how serious some are taking it, further proving the point of "Entitlement Era".

So is it unrealistic to expect people playing much more optimal by clicking different buttons with the same amount of work so terrible that I deserve to hang myself?

I'm just going to use my original post example.

Why use Fire I spam, then transpose and Blizzard I spam and repeat? Because it's their choice? Sure I guess you can say that.
But using Fire III, then Fire I spam, Blizzard III maybe scathe once for mana regen, repeat. Not only does this rotation does far more, it ALSO TAKES TWO MORE CLICK. TWO. SERIOUSLY. TWO. I'M NOT EVEN ASKING FOR THUNDER REFRESH.

Clearly my expectation is too high and I'm totally a 100% elitist and entitle to everything. Because clicking two extra buttons every rotation to shave 10 min off a run is guilty. Oh how terrible I am.

[Double]

snip

That does hold truth but OP's claim isn't that a player is afk or deliberately ruining runs, his claim is that he believes most people he run into isn't playing the way he wants them to.

He never said these players are preventing clears, he never stated that players are afk. His claim is that players aren't playing the way he wants them to which is subjective and undefined.
The best remedy is to simply play with people you would rather play with but quite honestly, no one likes pressure and no one welcomes expectancy when it's not needed.

snip

If you're running into people such as that, kindly offer advice. Most of the time, sane people will listen and take note for future reference. Unfortunately, most advice begins like this:

"BLM wtf use thunder."
"MNK wtf do you even know your rotation?"
"DRG do you even combo?"

"Scrub whm casting regen before pulls."(This is after the party member that knows better lets them keep doing it while the whm probably is unaware that you pull hate from regen on pulls).

This is the norm, this is our community and it sickens me to see this type of behavior become acceptable among ourselves.

You can just forget asking about a fight..

[Viridiana]

Some positive does go reported but that isn't the case.

You're trying to tell me that the balance between the two are even when you and I both can't see that evidence to prove otherwise.

What evidence we do see and have right now is that; if you browse this forum, you will see threads from your community asking why so much hostility when asking for help?

Why can't people be willing without all the toxic and negativity? Is this how you treat others?

The sad part is that, even when the victim doesn't ask for help or advice, you still get the toxic from players telling them to get better anyway.

Anecdotal evidence from the forums: this game is full of a-holes who harass people for small issues.

Anecdotal evidence from the game: most groups say approximately three words, "hello" and "gj all."

I mean, alternately I could go with this:

Anecdotal evidence from the forums: there are a lot of people with no idea how to play their class, and they're hostile to the idea of learning.

Anecdotal evidence from the game: there are a lot of people with no idea how to play their class, and I can usually convince them to do better.

The problem with anecdotal evidence, though, is that it rarely counts for much. So, no, neither of us has better than anecdotal evidence regarding the actual frequency of a particular outcome.

Edit:

Unfortunately, most advice begins like this:

"BLM wtf use thunder."
"MNK wtf do you even know your rotation?"
"DRG do you even combo?"

"Scrub whm casting regen before pulls."(This is after the party member that knows better lets them keep doing it while the whm probably is unaware that you pull hate from regen on pulls).

This is the norm, this is our community and it sickens me to see this type of behavior become acceptable among ourselves.

Having actually had similar scenarios. . .

"Hey, why aren't you casting fire at all?" Probably the most aggressive-sounding, at least in text. Not meant to be, but that's probably how it comes across.
"MNK does a lot more damage from the sides or behind than it does the front." MNK didn't say anything after, but I saw that he stopped standing in front of the mobs.
(I haven't bothered to correct a DRG recently)
"dat regen aggro " WHM basically responded with "Oh, is that why I keep getting aggro?" and we sorted it out.

But, no, I'm sure what you posted above is the norm. . .

[AlyssaFhey]

People need to understand that not everyone is a hardcore player and there are roulettes. Stop expecting Static members to be in there only.

[abzoluut]

People need to understand that not everyone is a hardcore player and there are roulettes. Stop expecting Static members to be in there only.

You, like many others, missed the point completely. Btw, where does it say people expect "static members" in roulettes? Or must you use a hyperbool to strengthen your point because of its lack of strength?

[AlyssaFhey]

You, like many others, missed the point completely. Btw, where does it say people expect "static members" in roulettes? Or must you use a hyperbool to strengthen your point because of its lack of strength?

If by missed the point, you mean disagree with you, then yes, I do disagree with you.

It was a hyperbole, but my point still stands. Don't expect everyone to know how to maximize dps.

[abzoluut]

Why do you think people expect max dps? Is asking someone to try so and so forcing someone to max dps? So if I, as a tank, start my rotation without using any enmity ability (which is possible as a WAR) and a healer or dps asks me to begin with a rotation that generates threath, I can just blunlty ignore the guy? Or say I rather keep this rotation beause this is how I like it? Sure, it's possible, dps just needs to wait 10ish seconds to attack which isn't all that long right?

Suddenly this is different, because now it's a tank isn't it? If it's dps, who cares right? As long as you get through the dungeon. There is no point in trying stuff in an MMO. Everyone should just play how they want because if you ask someone to do fire I instead of fire III, you instantly brake their casual approach. (this is just an example, I don't play BLM so forgive me)

Now let's get real here please...

[Gormogon]

So is it unrealistic to expect people playing much more optimal by clicking different buttons with the same amount of work so terrible that I deserve to hang myself?

TAKES TWO MORE CLICK. TWO. SERIOUSLY. TWO. I'M NOT EVEN ASKING FOR THUNDER REFRESH.

Clearly my expectation is too high and I'm totally a 100% elitist and entitle to everything.

Yes. I see it happen even in "top player" play. Some have legit excuses others are just lazy or care too much about their preferred rotation to make adjustments to better suit the group. To some it's just 1 button to others it may be 3 to take into consideration.

Yet if they don't do it and you're expecting them to do so and you're getting mad because they don't then it's your fault for not taking into consideration that they wont do it and optimizing around their form of play. You then become entitled and elitists when you start wanting to ban them because they didn't make your day.

Why do you think people expect max dps? Is asking someone to try so and so forcing someone to max dps? So if I, as a tank, start my rotation without using any enmity ability (which is possible as a WAR) and a healer or dps asks me to begin with a rotation that generates threath, I can just blunlty ignore the guy? Or say I rather keep this rotation beause this is how I like it? Sure, it's possible, dps just needs to wait 10ish seconds to attack which isn't all that long right?

Suddenly this is different, because now it's a tank isn't it? If it's dps, who cares right? As long as you get through the dungeon. There is no point in trying stuff in an MMO. Everyone should just play how they want because if you ask someone to do fire I instead of fire III, you instantly brake their casual approach. (this is just an example, I don't play BLM so forgive me)

Now let's get real here please...

They are obsessed with pointless numbers and they let those numbers dictated their attitude and mentality approach to other players.

Which is why I hate parsers.

A bard using songs is more beneficial to the group than one not using songs just so he can try and keep his max dps numbers.
A Warrior who can keep Storm's Eye within his rotation, a Dragoon that can keep up Disembowel, and a Monk that can keep up Dragon Kick are beneficial to the group than one not doing so just to keep his max dps number.
Summoners and Black Mages who have the potential to help the group and mainly the tanks with Eye for an Eye, Apocatastasis, Lethargy, Virus, binds, and battle res.
Paladin's have cover, cure, and stoneskin while healers have ways to help mitigate damage as well as buff and contribute to dps.

It gets bad when those players intentionally hold back on those abilities just because they don't want to give another class a beneficial boost to their DPS so they can try and stay ahead with their numbers just to gloat.