Thief/Assassin/Rogue/Ninja Class

[Mardel]

There will be a sneak attack most likely. Thief/Ninja will be about burst DPS. The point of the job will be take down your foes fast and hard but if you drag it out you will lose. So yes to stealth and yes to shadowstep and yes to poison applying to weapons.

In before SE makes it so that you just do debuffs only. No stealth involved.

[Kitru]

Thief varied a lot in other games so it can be changed significantly in this one like they did with Scholar.

The thief archetype hasn't really changed all that much across any game. They're always fast, high damage fighters with moderate survivability derived largely from evasion and some degree of stealth or other type of combat avoidance mechanism. You're basically creating an entirely different from what the actual archetype of thief (and is, honestly, antithetical to thief: you're making them explicitly insist upon being looked at *which makes no sense whatsoever*).

There is only one line of thought that would lead you to turn thief into a tank, predicated upon 2 central conceits: the knowledge that the devs are damned well not going to let NIN be a tank, and absolute insistence that THF be implemented as a job instead of a class.

Thief makes absolutely *no* sense as a tank. Thief has *never* been a durable class and has actually excelled at *getting out of combat*. NIN has actually been tankier because it's had higher hp and better evasion so acting as if, because NIN isn't going to be a tank, it makes sense for THF to be a tank makes absolutely no sense. It's absolutely ludicrous for THF to be a tank, even moreso than NIN.

I have said it time and time and time again: we're going to get either THF or NIN as a job, and the only way we're going to get both THF and NIN in game is if THF is the base class for NIN. Any other possible implementation is either redundant (2 diff classes, 2 jobs of the same role off of the same class) or completely absurd (either one being something other than a DPS).

[BigBoss3237]

Well thief can be a class for rogue and ninja be a class for assassin

[Exstal]

Well thief can be a class for rogue and ninja be a class for assassin

Why?

[Atreides]

Why?

He is just following the same logic others have been putting here, making Thief the class and Ninja the job is just as bad as the example you questioned just now.
They haven't used a single classic job name for a class yet and I don't think they start with it now.
All we can do for now is speculate, maybe we know more when E3 starts, I'm looking forward for it.
I for one don't want to be Naruto but I do look forward for Thief.

[BigBoss3237]

This is what I was thinking:

Rogue be the class and have Ninja and Thief be the jobs that rogues can turn into

Ninjas will focus on AGI and be more stealthy and use more poison applying and maybe have a weaker version back stab or sneak attack or trick attack, and be more focused on DoTs, the ability to lose enmity by going into the shadows.

Thiefs will focus on DEX and be more apt for burst damage, longer stealth cool downs, being able to steal and mug, and shadow step to get behind target, and enmity transfer like with trick attack.


With this it would split the OP of rogue class in the other mmorpgs, granted id prefer the all in one class. but this would be the more balanced approach.

[Atreides]

That would make them a ranged class which is very unlikely concidering we also get Gun using job aswell.
Dex = ranged damage.
Str = melee damage.
It's very likely that the Dagger class will work with Strenght.

[MartaDemireux]

NIN has actually been tankier because it's had higher hp and better evasion so acting as if, because NIN isn't going to be a tank, it makes sense for THF to be a tank makes absolutely no sense. It's absolutely ludicrous for THF to be a tank, even moreso than NIN.

Quick Key: Tankier, Offensier, Tied.

FFIII: THF - STR 63, AGI 99, VIT 63; NIN - STR 71, AGI 85, VIT 52. Tankier? THF. Offensier? NIN.

FFV: THF -STR +1, AGI +16, STA +2, MAG -6; NIN -STR +15, AGI +14, STA +3, MAG -10. Tankier? Tied. Offensier? NIN.

FFVI: Locke -STR 37, SPD 40, STA 31, MAG 28, ATK 14, DEF 46, EVA 15%, MDEF 23, MEVA 2%, HP Gain 48; Shadow - STR 39, SPD 38, STA 30, MAG 33, ATK 23, DEF 47, EVA 28%, MDEF 25, MEVA 9%, HP Gain 51. Tankier? Shadow (Gear: Locke). Offensier? Shadow.

FFXI (@75): THF - STR 56, DEX 70, AGI 65, VIT 56, INT 61, MND 44, CHR 44, EVA A+; NIN - STR 61, DEX 65, AGI 65, VIT 61, INT 56, MND 44, CHR 48, EVA A-. Tankier? Tied (Moveset: NIN). Offensier? Tied (Moveset: THF).

FFT: THF - SPD 9, HP Medium, ATK Medium, MAG Low, EVA 25%; NIN - SPD 10, HP Low, ATK High, MAG Medium, EVA 30%. Tankier? THF. Offensier? NIN.

FFTA: THF - HP 5.8, ATK 7.3, DEF 8.4, MAG 6.8, RES7.6, SPD 1.9; NIN -HP 5.8, ATK 8.4, DEF 7.2, MAG 8.1, RES7.6, SPD 2.1. Tankier? THF. Offensier? NIN.

FFTA2: THF - HP D, ATK E, DEF E, MAG E, RES F; NIN - HP E, ATK C, DEF F, MAG E. RES E. Tankier? THF. Offensier? NIN.

BDFF: THF - HP C, STR C, INT E, DEX S, VIT C, MND E, AGI S; NIN - HP C, STR B, INT C, DEX A, VIT D, MND C, AGI S. Tankier? THF (Moveset: NIN). Offensier? NIN (Moveset: THF).

Based on the above we can see that using stats alone THF has been sturdier in most occurrences and NIN has been stronger. The only FF's in which NIN is a direct improvement to THF in all areas are FFI and FFVI. The times where NIN beats out THF as a tank via movesets number 2. In one case their stats are essentially tied for tanking and the other THF wins in the stats alone. In both instances it is possible to sub skills from the other job leading both to tank effectively. In the one instance where the ninja (Shadow) outclasses the thief (Locke) in both areas the thief can pull ahead in tanking via gear possibilities.

Since THF has historically had abilities called "Mug," "Bully," "Vigilance," "Accomplice," "Collaborator," "Counter," "Steal Limelight," and "Shake Down," we could derive the theory that in a group they have accomplices whom they collaborate with to bully, mug, and shake down their targets. This results in them stealing the limelight (getting attention) in battle but that's no worry for them as they are vigilant and can dexterously evade and counter the attacks with their own.

Also as far as thievery goes in the real world, being up close and personal with a group is an often occurrence. It's generally only when the thief is alone will they worry about being sneaky and sly escapists. When their friends are with them they'll often take what they want straight on. In the game we can apply this to playing solo in the class or without the stance to sneak around with stealth abilities and escaping danger with flee and then playing in a party where you can gang up on the enemy.

I have said it time and time and time again: we're going to get either THF or NIN as a job, and the only way we're going to get both THF and NIN in game is if THF is the base class for NIN.

Unless you show *proof* that you work for SE's dev team you can say *anything* you wish to and it will *only* be *speculation* just like the rest of us. You *speculate* time and time and time again that THF and NIN will not both be jobs.

That would make them a ranged class which is very unlikely concidering we also get Gun using job aswell.
Dex = ranged damage.
Str = melee damage.
It's very likely that the Dagger class will work with Strenght.

They could potentially split Ninja into both via stance. STR for up close melee attacks and use a stance for DEX and INT based ranged attacks. Throw is a staple ability for Ninja, would love to see it utilized along with their water and lightning spells.

[Raestloz]

Steal is Thief's staple, but since getting loot through skill is just horribly imbalanced, I think their Steal will be more along Siphons: Steal Power, Steal Magic, stuff like that.

Ninja should NOT, by any means necessary, gain visual Invisibility. Instead, they should focus on dealing a flurry of low-damages at high speed, relying on procs such as critical to deal their damage. In short, they're monks with lower TP consumption, lower skill CD, and lower damage per strike, resulting in overall similar damage output, but with more chances of something to proc in between, resulting in higher potential.

Ninja may very well have Stealth, but it'd be for opening strike OR to reduce / outright lose enmity.

Ninja's HP would be lower, but with higher chance to evade. This will make Ninja a curse in Titans where Tumult will make healers' life even harder, but a boon in fights with evade-able skills such as Garuda's attacks. Not that it'd make much difference when you get Shrieked

[BigBoss3237]

Why is is so imbalanced that a job gets stealth? You guys are acting like omg it wouldn't be fair they can go ahead in a dungeon. They wouldn't have to do anything. That's not true, a true ninja/thief job will have invisibility. And some kind of shadowstep and backstab. It's not like a 10 to 15 second stealth with a 30 second cool down will hurt. Have a set of skills that only work in stealth also