Almost everyone wants to "skip" having to raid!

[Cherie]

I personally like raiding.

I've "raided" in probably 4 or 5 different MMOs now.

To me, there really isn't any other reason to play a MMO besides to socialize. All those inevitable mandatory repeated dungeon runs (from a short list of maybe three total dungeons always in every game) for some kind of tokens is *not* the highlight of my MMOs experience ever but, for most of my friends in MMOs now, it's now the main course meal.

From reading these forums, it's pretty clear (about as certain as death and taxes) that people want to just gear up doing the normal mundane tasks that MMOs offer. Whether it be daily quests, repeated low level dungeon grinds or some other farming mode content, that is what people seem to prefer lately.

When did things change? Like ten years ago, I remember people would get really excited about the prospect of getting in a large group of people and doing something together when they reached max level. Now everyone seems to want to play alone or in small groups only.

Such discussions about "the best gear in raids needs to end" really shouldn't be a hundred page thread, but it is, and people take it really seriously. I personally don't care where the gear comes from, but to me, gear/loot has always been a means to a end. Which is to say, if there was no interesting loot to be had in a raid, it would be hard to get people to go, no matter how fun it might have been to play it. So while it's all fine and dandy to have the loot in raids be marginalized by loot you can get by yourself doing something mundane, what really makes people want to raid these days?

The big question is, what diminished the raiding in this game? Was it marginalizing the loot or just the state of MMOs these days? Why do people prefer to play a online multiplayer game mostly alone or with maybe just 2-3 other people? If you can get the best gear just by farming alone, it's quite a lonely game. It's not even really a time-constraint issue when the main raid can be done in one night over maybe two or three hours! Even that is "too much" for most people to consider doing, while 8hr atma farm fests are perfectly fine time wise.

Older MMO players like me don't understand... lol

[Corfish]

For me it's the fact I am expected to have a static. I do the raids like Crystal Tower and the first Coil currently because no one expects you to have a static. I don't want to have a set schedule where I meet up with 7+ other players to do a dungeon. I want to be able to just go "Hmm... I feel like doing blank today, so I will!" You can't do that with the second coil because no one is going to take a random person with them, and if they do, they expect them to join their static (which I don't want.) I personally think they should remove the weekly lockout from the second coil, so people like me CAN do the raids. People in static would be more willing to PUG for practice, and I could get any random FC members together for a coil run without worrying about if they'll get locked out from their static runs.

They don't need to be easier, they don't need to change the loot, they don't need to change the loot lockout. They just need to allow people to run it as much as they please, and you would see a higher number of people running raids.

[Logistical]

I personally think they should remove the weekly lockout from the second coil

They don't need to change the loot

They don't need to change the loot lockout.

They just need to allow people to run it as much as they please, and you would see a higher number of people running raids.

People would burn out so much faster. While you would have a much higher influx of people running the SCoB Raid. You would have a massive influx of people quitting. The lock out will be removed again once we get the Third installment more than likely.

[Skull_Angel]

For me it's the fact I am expected to have a static. I do the raids like Crystal Tower and the first Coil currently because no one expects you to have a static. I don't want to have a set schedule where I meet up with 7+ other players to do a dungeon. I want to be able to just go "Hmm... I feel like doing blank today, so I will!" You can't do that with the second coil because no one is going to take a random person with them, and if they do, they expect them to join their static (which I don't want.) I personally think they should remove the weekly lockout from the second coil, so people like me CAN do the raids. People in static would be more willing to PUG for practice, and I could get any random FC members together for a coil run without worrying about if they'll get locked out from their static runs.

They don't need to be easier, they don't need to change the loot, they don't need to change the loot lockout. They just need to allow people to run it as much as they please, and you would see a higher number of people running raids.

That about sums up the thoughts very well of most people I know. It's not so much about not wanting to run raids, it's about the convenience of getting into it at any point in time.

[Cherie]

Can your really say that raids in pick up groups always go very well? I often get trolled by people. Sometimes the trolls will just repeatedly try to wipe groups on purpose or will wear inappropriate gear (not even talking about being not geared, talking about wearing a snowman suit when they are the main tank). At least, when I frequent groups with guildmates, they know not to be a total jerk, or odds are, we could take some other person for the next one.

Sure, some pugs go well though, it's always a random thing because there is no accountability. You will never see them again most likely, so people have the sign to act like a total jerk. :P

Not sure I understand anyone's aversion to being in a "static", but I know it's something many don't want and I accept it. Personally I just wonder if it's just this game, or games in general now. When I most recently played Rift for instance, while there were many pug raids, most people always were cheerful about having their static that could get further because they practiced hard and figured it out. There were many alts (I had like 2 or 3 myself) and I would frequently pug raids on my alts and have lots of fun, even occasionally get to the last boss (but not often).

[Yurimi]

Having played MMO's since they were something you did on a BBS over telnet (dont judge me) I agree that raiding these days seems to take a back burner where people want the best gear from killing the same thing 300 times. Not sure when this changed I remember when people were ok with getting good loot from mundane tasks while the great loot was reserved for those epic fights. For me I dont raid much anymore, to me its simply a matter of not having the drive I did back then. But I dont care that the best loot comes from coil while I simply have access to good loot. People need a reason to run this stuff otherwise it would simply be a matter of logging in running the same dungoen 10x logging out for the week and honestly... that sounds like the lamest game ever... how could you even try to sell that..

(D)EV: "So we are making an MMO..."
(P)ublisher "Ok what are your ideas"
(D): OK we got this dungeon with 3 bosses takes 15mins you run it 10x then you buy an item
(P): and what do you use this gear for
(D): to run the dungeon again
(P): OK and then what
(D): oh.. you want more? uhhh you log in the next week and do the same
(P): so there is nothing hard
(D): nah people dont want that
(P): then why gear, why play at all
(D): because.... dungeons !
(P): why would someone pay money every month to play with that
(D): because dungeons !
(P): not seeing a point to this
(D): people will trust me
(P): Get out
(D): ok sorry

[Skull_Angel]

Not sure I understand anyone's aversion to being in a "static", but I know it's something many don't want and I accept it. Personally I just wonder if it's just this game, or games in general now. When I most recently played Rift for instance, while there were many pug raids, most people always were cheerful about having their static that could get further because they practiced hard and figured it out. There were many alts (I had like 2 or 3 myself) and I would frequently pug raids on my alts and have lots of fun, even occasionally get to the last boss (but not often).

There's not real aversion to being in a static, but it's not always possible to jump up and say "hey, I'm board and have enough time, lest run a raid!". This is the kind of situation many people are faced with that have work schedules that often change weekly. Most of the time I can get several people together for whatever whenever, but finding a full party of buddies to run any time rarely happens.

[Luxx]

Lock out of Coil 2 will probably be removed once Coil 3 is out.

[Priya]

I've wondered this myself. In every other game I've played (WoW, Rift, Tera, SWTOR) people have always been clamoring to get into new raids. Here it seems the "meh, let's do the old content instead" attitude is prevalent, and the odd thing about that is that this game's raid takes less time commitment than something like WoW. Maybe it's a population issue? I don't think it's really raid size as 8 isn't much different than 10, and WoW's 10man is more popular than 25 with normalized loot and shared lock-out. Maybe 1.5 mil (or whatever this game is) vs. 7 mil can really make the "Woot, raid time!" people seem few and far between. My server, at least, seems like no one really wants to raid even though it's large (it's possible I'm not looking around hard enough).

[Jonny_Tapas]

To me, there really isn't any other reason to play a MMO besides to socialize.

When did things change? Like ten years ago, I remember people would get really excited about the prospect of getting in a large group of people and doing something together when they reached max level. Now everyone seems to want to play alone or in small groups only.

This ^ +1! I used to love these games! Log in... gather up some buddies and go smash some content! Fun!

I guess people got tired of shouting and waiting so developers made finding a group easier. Queues were born. Duty Finder, Party Finder... things of the sort. Now you don't have to shout. You don't have to wait... You just push a button or 2 and go about your business and you'll soon get to participate with little to no hassle.

Unfortunately... It's absolutely destroying socialism.