Almost everyone wants to "skip" having to raid!

[Cherie]

I personally like raiding.

I've "raided" in probably 4 or 5 different MMOs now.

To me, there really isn't any other reason to play a MMO besides to socialize. All those inevitable mandatory repeated dungeon runs (from a short list of maybe three total dungeons always in every game) for some kind of tokens is *not* the highlight of my MMOs experience ever but, for most of my friends in MMOs now, it's now the main course meal.

From reading these forums, it's pretty clear (about as certain as death and taxes) that people want to just gear up doing the normal mundane tasks that MMOs offer. Whether it be daily quests, repeated low level dungeon grinds or some other farming mode content, that is what people seem to prefer lately.

When did things change? Like ten years ago, I remember people would get really excited about the prospect of getting in a large group of people and doing something together when they reached max level. Now everyone seems to want to play alone or in small groups only.

Such discussions about "the best gear in raids needs to end" really shouldn't be a hundred page thread, but it is, and people take it really seriously. I personally don't care where the gear comes from, but to me, gear/loot has always been a means to a end. Which is to say, if there was no interesting loot to be had in a raid, it would be hard to get people to go, no matter how fun it might have been to play it. So while it's all fine and dandy to have the loot in raids be marginalized by loot you can get by yourself doing something mundane, what really makes people want to raid these days?

The big question is, what diminished the raiding in this game? Was it marginalizing the loot or just the state of MMOs these days? Why do people prefer to play a online multiplayer game mostly alone or with maybe just 2-3 other people? If you can get the best gear just by farming alone, it's quite a lonely game. It's not even really a time-constraint issue when the main raid can be done in one night over maybe two or three hours! Even that is "too much" for most people to consider doing, while 8hr atma farm fests are perfectly fine time wise.

Older MMO players like me don't understand... lol

[Corfish]

For me it's the fact I am expected to have a static. I do the raids like Crystal Tower and the first Coil currently because no one expects you to have a static. I don't want to have a set schedule where I meet up with 7+ other players to do a dungeon. I want to be able to just go "Hmm... I feel like doing blank today, so I will!" You can't do that with the second coil because no one is going to take a random person with them, and if they do, they expect them to join their static (which I don't want.) I personally think they should remove the weekly lockout from the second coil, so people like me CAN do the raids. People in static would be more willing to PUG for practice, and I could get any random FC members together for a coil run without worrying about if they'll get locked out from their static runs.

They don't need to be easier, they don't need to change the loot, they don't need to change the loot lockout. They just need to allow people to run it as much as they please, and you would see a higher number of people running raids.

[Logistical]

I personally think they should remove the weekly lockout from the second coil

They don't need to change the loot

They don't need to change the loot lockout.

They just need to allow people to run it as much as they please, and you would see a higher number of people running raids.

People would burn out so much faster. While you would have a much higher influx of people running the SCoB Raid. You would have a massive influx of people quitting. The lock out will be removed again once we get the Third installment more than likely.

[Skull_Angel]

For me it's the fact I am expected to have a static. I do the raids like Crystal Tower and the first Coil currently because no one expects you to have a static. I don't want to have a set schedule where I meet up with 7+ other players to do a dungeon. I want to be able to just go "Hmm... I feel like doing blank today, so I will!" You can't do that with the second coil because no one is going to take a random person with them, and if they do, they expect them to join their static (which I don't want.) I personally think they should remove the weekly lockout from the second coil, so people like me CAN do the raids. People in static would be more willing to PUG for practice, and I could get any random FC members together for a coil run without worrying about if they'll get locked out from their static runs.

They don't need to be easier, they don't need to change the loot, they don't need to change the loot lockout. They just need to allow people to run it as much as they please, and you would see a higher number of people running raids.

That about sums up the thoughts very well of most people I know. It's not so much about not wanting to run raids, it's about the convenience of getting into it at any point in time.

[Massterchef]

For me it's the fact I am expected to have a static. I do the raids like Crystal Tower and the first Coil currently because no one expects you to have a static. I don't want to have a set schedule where I meet up with 7+ other players to do a dungeon. I want to be able to just go "Hmm... I feel like doing blank today, so I will!"

Raiding isn't exactly a 24/7 thing and its pretty common for casual even hardcore statics to meet twice a week for 2~ hours a night. You seriously can't make time for 4 hours in a week, and do whatever you need to do prior to raid time on days that you aren't working?

Unless you have a job which has fairly unreasonable hours or raid during off peak hours and can't find a group that can sync with your time, I can't really see how joining a static is such a 'restraint' on your schedule.

[Corfish]

snip

I'm sure I could probably make it, but I don't want to. What if I don't want to focus on raiding that night? If I back out I just look like someone who can't commit, and if I go raiding, I'll just be bored because I want to do something else. This game isn't my life, I don't want a schedule for it of any sort. I want the complete freedom to get on when I wish and do whatever I want. I don't see anything wrong with that. I don't go to statics demanding they work around me, I wait for the raids to open up and enjoy them then.

[TeganLaron]

Raiding isn't exactly a 24/7 thing and its pretty common for casual even hardcore statics to meet twice a week for 2~ hours a night. You seriously can't make time for 4 hours in a week, and do whatever you need to do prior to raid time on days that you aren't working?

Unless you have a job which has fairly unreasonable hours or raid during off peak hours and can't find a group that can sync with your time, I can't really see how joining a static is such a 'restraint' on your schedule.

I think that's great that your static does it like that, but most (at least on my server) are not like that at all. Most do around 4 nights a week between 2-3 hours. That's a little too much for most people.

[Cherie]

I think that's great that your static does it like that, but most (at least on my server) are not like that at all. Most do around 4 nights a week between 2-3 hours. That's a little too much for most people.

Four nights a week? I think even the most hardcore FC on Leviathan server schedules only three nights. My old static raided for one night a week and we were working on turn 9 (though admittedly, how much can you do when you raid 2.5hrs a week as we did, so we weren't probably going to down it soon).

If "most" of your FCs on your server are doing four nights, they'd better be on turn 10 (I know there is no such thing...)! lol....seriously, what would they do with four nights? Turn 9 is very difficult yes, but it's something that quite a few have managed to down on leviathan server. If a FC spent four nights a week on it, that wouldn't even be for very long because they'd probably down turn 9. After that, what will they do the other 3 nights? :/

I apologize for being one to doubt, but I think you are exaggerating just a tad bit there... I can get your point however that some FC take raiding very seriously but, I would suggest they are the exception and not the rule. I'm very serious (like a heart attack) when I say that hardcore FC's in this game are a very small minority. Mostly for the fact that they are serious for a bit, clear everything, then just farm for the rest of their time until the next patch comes out.

[TeganLaron]

Four nights a week? I think even the most hardcore FC on Leviathan server schedules only three nights. My old static raided for one night a week and we were working on turn 9 (though admittedly, how much can you do when you raid 2.5hrs a week as we did, so we weren't probably going to down it soon).

If "most" of your FCs on your server are doing four nights, they'd better be on turn 10 (I know there is no such thing...)! lol....seriously, what would they do with four nights? Turn 9 is very difficult yes, but it's something that quite a few have managed to down on leviathan server. If a FC spent four nights a week on it, that wouldn't even be for very long because they'd probably down turn 9. After that, what will they do the other 3 nights? :/

I apologize for being one to doubt, but I think you are exaggerating just a tad bit there... I can get your point however that some FC take raiding very seriously but, I would suggest they are the exception and not the rule. I'm very serious (like a heart attack) when I say that hardcore FC's in this game are a very small minority. Mostly for the fact that they are serious for a bit, clear everything, then just farm for the rest of their time until the next patch comes out.

Couldn't reply quicker because of a daily limit or something.

No I'm not exaggerating at all actually. My old static did 4 days a week, my friend's does 3-4 and 2 other statics I know of do 4 nights days as well. Also according to someone in the FC of our server first Turn 9 group they reportedly do 5-6 nights a week.

I think it's your group that is the minority here not mine. Sure if you're doing Turns 6-9 in a night then you don't need to do anything else. But not everyone has it that easy and instead is forced to bang their head against the wall of whatever turn they are stuck on.

[Purrfectstorm]

For me it's the fact I am expected to have a static. I do the raids like Crystal Tower and the first Coil currently because no one expects you to have a static. I don't want to have a set schedule where I meet up with 7+ other players to do a dungeon. I want to be able to just go "Hmm... I feel like doing blank today, so I will!" You can't do that with the second coil because no one is going to take a random person with them, and if they do, they expect them to join their static (which I don't want.) I personally think they should remove the weekly lockout from the second coil, so people like me CAN do the raids. People in static would be more willing to PUG for practice, and I could get any random FC members together for a coil run without worrying about if they'll get locked out from their static runs.

They don't need to be easier, they don't need to change the loot, they don't need to change the loot lockout. They just need to allow people to run it as much as they please, and you would see a higher number of people running raids.

I feel the exact same way. I fully plan on doing 2nd Coil but probably won't bother until some months from now when the lockout is removed.